[Closed] 11sp XTR - can't get onto big cog

B limit screw

Got your hub spacer in there?

Does the XTR cassette need the freehub spacer that is provided with the Pro4 hub? My 11 speed XT cassette does.

It's not that Mike as it just won't reach even with the cage swung out of the way.

I've just tried spacing the cassette out a bit and I'm now at 3mm which is about as much s I can do without the lock ring hitting the dropout

[list]No mountain bike cassette needs a spacer that is for the roadie freaks.

Don't over the cassette out

mikewsmith - Member
[list]No mountain bike cassette needs a spacer that is for the roadie freaks.

The bag that it comes in, specifically states the following:

PLEASE NOTE
Use this spacer when fitting
a 9/10 speed cassette
or XT-M8000/XTR-M9000
(11 speed) Cassette

Well that is new, why doesn't it fit like any other 11sp shimano?

The Pro4 freehub is cut back further...getting ready for 12 speed? See the freehub photos at the bottom.

http://www.hopetech.com/11-speed-compatibility/

I bought the xtr setup 2nd hand so have no idea what should be with it but I've now got 2x1mm spacers behind the cassette. I tried 3 but the lock ring hit the dropout.

It's a 142mm rear if it makes any difference

It feels like I need to take 2-3mm off the width of the mech hanger on the outside to get enough reach

Well that is new, why doesn't it fit like any other 11sp shimano?

It's so that the hubs are compatible with 11 speed road cassettes. To run 10 speed road or 11 speed shimano mountain you need the provided spacer.

I bought the xtr setup 2nd hand

Is it bent?

Good question Simon and looking at it id say not obviously. And it's not the frame - that's brand new.

Have you got the cable clamped in the right place?

And is the hanger straight? (many aren't on new bikes / frames)

I've got it clamped in the obvious place - I'll get some pics in. A bit when I get home.

Can't imagine the hangers bent it's integrated with the dropout and solid steel

simondbarnes - Member
Have you got the cable clamped in the right place?

You've seen this a bit too?

It's in the slot I can't se it would go anywhere also but I'll check some pics and look at the manual if I can find one onlone

If the cables right and the spacings right and nothings bent I'm going with the b-screw..
It seems to make more of a difference with 11speed than nine or ten speed,

I downloaded the manual and went through all the steps correctly with no issues but I still can't get to the big cog. While I can set the limits correctly and get the B screw in the right place, there's just not enough travel capacity in the mech to reach 1st.

Never mind, just means I've got a 10 speed I guess. At least the mech shouldn't ever fall into the wheel.

Maybe pictures frome the top and the side and bottom when you try and shifter it to lowest and highest gears.

If you disconnect the cable, can you move the mech, by hand, onto all 11 gears.

Maybe? you have a 10 speed shifter 😉

I've just had a similar problem: my XTR 9000 SGS wouldn't pick up 44 cog on hope cassette (or the ten if b screw was fully adjusted to allow 44)
Reason:
XTR (above model anyway)won't work on these big range cassettes. (Max cog 40)
It needs to be an XT 8000 SGS (the cage is a good 20mm longer)
Fitted XT and all is peachy.

http://bike.shimano.com/content/sac-bike/en/home/components11/mountain/xtr-m9000/rd-m9000-sgs.html

I've got a long cage XTR 11 speed and it works just fine with a 46T cassette.

Had to make sure the chain was long enough, though. Too short and it wouldn't go into the top cog.

XTR works fine on 46T. Shimano changed their max low gear recommendation having made the 11-46T option available. So as not to give away the fact that wider spread options were in the works? Dunno.

Anyway - they updated their listed specs, but didn't change all listings. The dealer PP presentation from Shimano states max 46T, as does the below.

http://www.madison.co.uk/products/cycling/transmission-braking-components/groupsets/rd-m9000-xtr-gs-medium-cage-shadow-43-direct-mount-compatible/

Yes, they do work on bigger cogs if top gear is 11. It's the 10-44/46 etc ranges that bring problems, apparently.

Still within it's capacity.

Suspect it's an out of spec hanger issue.

Perhaps SOM, I can only vouch for my experience and my LBS:
mine wouldn't work
They contacted supplier
Supplier told them about issues, and what is compatible
LBS fitted XT and it worked a treat.

Arguing whether an xtr mech will work with a cassette larger than a 40t is irrelevant to the OP who is using an XTR cassette.

It's a regular XTR cassette of 40 or 42T (i forget) I don't need bigger as if it's that steep I'll get off an push, I'm not proud.

I've figured out a couple of fix options to move the mech in a bit. Both pretty easy but I am thinking I shouldn't have gone quite so bling. 🙄

Resurrecting this thread - I haven't got around to fixing this yet so I'm still 10 speed but I've just had a thought.

Did Shimano change the design of their mechs to give more capacity on the advent of 142mm? I'm not sure mine would be that old but it seems plausible.

Is this all M9000 (cassette and mech)? I have 142 back-end (pretty standard, pre-boost) with the stock XTR (M9000) 11-42 cassette and no range issues.

daern - Member
Is this all M9000 (cassette and mech)?

Yes

Think this might be recovering old ground, but...

As others have said, an M8000/M9000 11 speed XTR cassette is the same width as a 10 speed cassette and may need spacing if the freehub is designed to also accept the wider 11-speed road cassettes too. Daft question, and I'm sorry for asking, but is the freehub spacer correctly fitted on the inside of the cassette and not next to the lock ring? (sorry, but I had to ask!)

I'd fall back to basics and remove the cable and chain, and relax the low screw fully. Then see if you can physically push (with your hand) the mech past the large sprocket at the back. You might have to pull the tensioner down to get the top jockey wheel to clear the sprockets, but it should be able to move past the inside (largest sprocket) with ease and this will give an indication of whether the mech can mechanically reach.

Next would be to get a hanger alignment tool onto it to make sure the hanger is spot-on. They're nearly always mis-aligned, even on brand new frames and bikes.

If the mech can't reach but the hanger is aligned, it's worth double-checking that your frame actually has the correct hanger on it. It might be nothing more complicated than the frame being fitted with the wrong hanger at the factory. You don't mention what the frame is, but this would be my first port of call if the mech movement check fails and the hanger is aligned.

Sorry, lot of repeated stuff here, but there's only so many things it could be. If you were closer to me here, I'd happily offer an evening with my [url= http://www.parktool.com/product/shop-hammer-hmr-4 ]finely crafted precision tools[/url] to give you another head to bash against it 🙂

It's probably that either the mech or the frame is DM and the other isn't. You need to either remove or add the link on the mech at a guess. Given that the b screw is pushing against something (assume the right thing) I'd say the frame is DM and the link needs removing. Does the dropout where the mech connects also have a flat for the b screw to push against?
It's definitely not a mech capacity issue since OP said XTR cassette. They only go up to 40t and XTR GS supports 11-46 anyway.
It's probably not b screw since OP said they followed the install instructions which implies there is the correct clearance in 40t sprocket and that other limit screws are also set correctly.

The dropout is straight and very solid as it's a single piece with the dropout so it's straight and not going anywhere. It's also not suffered any knocks in it's life and is conventional rather than direct mount.

I can't remember if I've got the spacer in but the cassette itself is as close to the dropout as it can go without the chain actually touching the dropout in top.

The simple fact of it is that at somewhere inboard of gear 10 the cable mech can simply move no further because the cable cannot be pulled any further. I'll see if I can get a pic.

One (or two) moment(s) please

Did you try without the cable attached? I.e moving by hand?

Did you perhaps set it up with the shifter 1 gear up from bottom?

There are two xtr cassettes. M9000 and M90001 check the box and make sure you have the right one for either 1x11 or double / triple

Are you loosening the correct stop (limit) screw? Not accidentally wound the wrong one out?

It's nothing to do with top or bottom limits the mech simply can't reach 11tth gear as the gap between the gear cable arm and the hole the gear cable comes out of closes to almost nothing before it gets there.

Here's some pics

In "Top"
[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

In 2nd
[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

This is in 2nd - I can't get 1st because the gap closes up and the leverage just isn't there to move the mech any further.
[img] [/img]

I'm pretty sure the only options I have are to either shave the hanger or find someone to make me a new direct mount link with a 3.5mm offset to fix the issue. I don't suppose anyone makes one already do they?

What's the frame? Is it possible that the "mech hanger" is simply out of alignment and is too far from the centreline of the bike?

scotroutes - Member
What's the frame? Is it possible that the "mech hanger" is simply out of alignment and is too far from the centreline of the bike?

I'm pretty sure that's exactly the problem (the hanger is 8mm wide out from the 142mm face rather than the 135mm face where , by rights, it ought to be) but speaking to the builder it's the same design of dropout he's been using since he started and he's only had a few have this issue so I'm wondering if it's specific to my transmission choice/vintage and trying to figure out what the lowest impact way of fixing it is. He has now fixed it for ongoing production and I like him so I'm not going to name him to save any embarrassment.

THIS Video

of an alternative Goat link type thing being fitted to an SLX equiped bike suggests that there's a narrower link piece and washer that if compatible would solve the problem by simply switching the washer to the other side. Does anyone have a dead DM Mech with one of these I could buy and try?

AH! Just had a brain wave - I've got an old Zee mech I bought to resurrect my DH bike that I haven't got around to that looks to have the right bits - I'll cannibalise that and see if I can sort this with that.

Embarrassing him or not he sold you a frame "some people have had issues with" so it's a known problem but he happily took your money anyway? I'd not be pleased about that even if i did "like him"

Looks like bscrew to me in this pics although the one that would make that obvious is too dark to say for certain. Also I'd say your cable outer is too short which will cause other shifting issues. 142 and 136 terminate at the same width so that's not an issue. The difference is purely in where they measure to. Many bikes can swap the dropouts and the internal dimension is the same either way on the frame.

Can you not get the builder to face the gear hanger down to size?
Also I think there are some pics of your bike on his site but could be wrong...
If it is built by who I think he seemed a nice guy when I met him I'm sure he could sort that out easy enough.

He has now fixed it for ongoing production and I like him so I'm not going to name him to save any embarrassment.

I'd be asking the frame maker to fix it for me rather than bodging up something that might come back to haunt me later.

Here's a shot of my tallboy (M9000 cassette and mech):

[img] [/img]

Note how your fixed drop-out sets the mech further out from the outer edge of the cassette. I suspect that this exceeds the available tolerance for

This isn't bang up to date (it's mostly 10 speed, but I think the tolerances are the same for 11 speed):

Page 27 discusses the thickness of the dropout - i.e. the distance from the end of the hub axle (excluding any recess) and the mech mounting face which should be no more than 8mm. I've measured mine and it's around 7.5mm:

[img] https://i.imgur.com/QokKAZK.pn g" target="_blank">https://i.imgur.com/QokKAZK.pn g"/> [/img]

I'd be interested in what your matching measurements are...

If your dropout is too far out, how about trying something like this?
https://www.wolftoothcomponents.com/collections/all/products/roadlink

The question was originally because I was the first to have this problem, I guess there have been some others since. The odd thing is that some others running exactly the same setup as me don't have the problem which is why I was wondering if it was something specific to my vintage of mech.

Sorry if that wasn't clear.

which is why I was wondering if it was something specific to my vintage of mech

Given that it's obviously a Starling from the design...

Of the two people I know who ordered frames from them, one turned up looking like a banana & the other was welded so pissed and badly it didn't need to be anywhere near a jig to confirm, i'm going on a tolerance issue with the frame.

Given that it's obviously a Starling from the design...

Just to give a counter-point, I've not had any issues with mine with the gearing etc. Although I'm running a SRAM mech on a hope 10-44, whether the shape of the mech means it get a bit more clearance I don't know.

(sorry just saw you spoke to the builder so ignore my last message)

daern - Member
Here's a shot of my tallboy (M9000 cassette and mech):

Thanks Daern that's very helpful. I'll see if my Zee based bodge works later. Here's hoping Shimano keep the same standards for that link piece across all mech types.

Just a thought....

Can you remove the direct mount link and attach the bolt nearest the derailleur cable directly to the frame?

Looks like you might have clearance without it fouling the cassette and it would bring the mech in? Might work with a bit of b-screw adjustment to clear the casette?

Sorted 😀

As I thought the Zee dogbone & washer combo is a direct swap for the XTR dogbone and the 3.5mm washer when switched sides gave me just the right amount of movement to align everything correctly and get all the gears. See pics below.

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

Now it's just a matter of testing it out but damn the 40T gearing feels low! What must Eagle be like????

If you fit a grown up chainring it's much better 😉 . The whole point of the 40+ t rear sprocket is so you don't have to run a baby chainring at the front, giving you better range at the faster end of the block. Try a 36t chainring and you'll find the 40t is much more normal.