[Closed] 11 Speed XT

Apparently, you can't use the 11-42 cassette on a 2x setup. Why, exactly?

Shimano have implied that the 42-11 cassette is 1x only (with HG-X11 specific tooth profile), reserving the 40-11 cassette for 2x and 3x applications.

rhayter - you've got that the wrong way round, the 11-42 cassette is ONLY for use in 1x setups, not for use with the double or triples.

Shimano have implied that the 42-11 cassette is 1x only (with HG-X11 specific tooth profile), reserving the 40-11 cassette for 2x and 3x applications.

I read it as the 42t max cassette was 1x only, unless they've edited it?

edit: simultaneous repetition fail!

Looks good though

Yeah, you're right. So I edited my post to not look like such a schmuck.

Didn't work.

oooooh interesting! the cassettes all im interested in

so I can get a 11-42 xt cassette for £75 (without any discounts!) it will now be cheaper to swap freehub to shimano freehub and get a cassette over buying a xx1 cassette

(ok so ill lose the 10th, but not arsed about that!)

I guess this will mostly wipe xx1/x01 out of the game again

Looks really good that, great pricing too

Mech sizes I'm guessing as to why it's 1x only.

Odd they say it won't work with M9000, and yet M9000 mechs work flawlessly on XX1 cassettes. Presumably an even more expensive M9001 11-42 is on the way to cater for that market.

In a few posts no-one will notice & it'll be buried under arguments about enduro specific groupsets or something 😉

Remember that XTR is aimed at racers Nick. Shimano may reason that racers don't need a 42T and that XT is good enough for us mere mortals wanting bigger cassettes.

Remember that XTR is aimed at racers Nick. Shimano may reason that racers don't need a 42T and that XT is good enough for us mere mortals wanting bigger cassettes.

Which I think makes sense - there's been a lot of hand wringing on here about it previously though! I'm happy using SRAM cassette for the extra range and lower weight. It just seems a little underhand that:

- they didn't do an M9000 11-42 because the gaps were too big
- now they've decided the gaps aren't too big it's not compatible with M9000, despite the fact it really is.

Odd they say it won't work with M9000, and yet M9000 mechs work flawlessly on XX1 cassettes

It's probably in the same way that they say an SS cage won't work with a 36t or more cassette and yet I am running my SS XTR on a 11-40t perfectly.

SRAM will have to do something about the pricing on X01 and X1, surely? The RRPs quoted here: http://www.bikeradar.com/mtb/news/article/shimano-deore-xt-m8000-11-speed-first-look-44084/ make both look hideously overpriced.

Maybe it doesn't work to Shimano's standards, which are notoriously high, but in reality an XTR mech will be fine.

Looks like the 2nd generation of this will be going on my next bike!

And where's everyone from the "amazing technology on a Sram Deore cassette" thread not that XT have undercut Sram's budget option by £30 with a high level product?

It'll be interesting to see how this prices up vs SRAM GX on the likes of CRC.

Can you run the new XT chain on a "normal" narrow wide chainring? I'd say probably.

So using existing cranks and say a superstar NW ring you can make the leap to 1x11 for about 200 quid.

That's somewhat of a bargain!*

*comepared to SRAM's offerings and other new stuff on the market...

A surprise indeed and welcomed by me. Should be very widely available by this time next year when I'm likely to want it.

SRAM will have to do something about the pricing on X01 and X1, surely?

Why? X0 cost more than XTR previously, let alone XX! X9 has always been between XT and XTR etc. It's basically the same price as GX.

SRAM pricing has always been odd, people try and correlate to Shimano hierarchies (which are nice and clear), but IMO that doesn't really stack up!

and SRAM still have that 10t cog. Everyone focuses on the 42 end of the cassette but that 10 is just as significant.

Not to me.

and SRAM still have that 10t cog. Everyone focuses on the 42 end of the cassette but that 10 is just as significant.

I wonder if the the new 44T One Up sprocket would fit on in place of the 42 on the XT cassette. Means you should get similar range as a SRAM 10-42 while running a bigger ring up front. Cost wise it would work out cheaper than running the XT kit on a SRAM 10-42 cassette.

Not to me.

Except it allows you to run a smaller chainring, effectively making the other end even bigger. Shimano would need an 11-46 to get the same range.

I wonder if the the new 44T One Up sprocket would fit on in place of the 42 on the XT cassette

No chance! They're entirely different construction and the XT will need the offset in order to fit on a conventional freehub body. Still narrower range too.

Very, very excited by this. Glad I didn't buy that 2 X 10 XT groupset now!

Does it come in silver and black like the M780/785 groupset or just black?

[i]The extra space needed for that extra gear is taken by riding the cassette up the spokes a little. [/i]

what?

I think the XT crank also looks nicer than the new xtr cranks

No chance! They're entirely different construction and the XT will need the offset in order to fit on a conventional freehub body. Still narrower range too.

In that case, I wonder how long until One Up do a 44 tooth shimano fitting to do exactly as I suggest above?

Rubber_Buccaneer - Member
and SRAM still have that 10t cog. Everyone focuses on the 42 end of the cassette but that 10 is just as significant.

POSTED 6 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST
teethgrinder - Member
Not to me.

the lower end of the cassette is more important. 10% difference between 10 and 11 not much difference between 40 and 42!

what?

The largest sprocket if offset, if effectively 'overhangs' the flange on the rear hub - using the space created by the angle of the spokes. It's how they've done 11 speed cassettes on the old freehub body.

In that case, I wonder how long until One Up do a 44 tooth shimano fitting to do exactly as I suggest above?

Is the 42 a separate sprocket? I know the 40t is on XTR, so seems plausible.

So could I run the new 11-42 cassette on my 10spd system thus not having to piece together expander / 16t etc.

Is the 42 a separate sprocket? I know the 40t is on XTR, so seems plausible.

aaahh, right I get it, thanks njee20.

The Xt is just available in the one colour option, the shifters are 30% ligther action with 20& less movement to get your gear a bit like XTR.

The side swing front mech is awsweome gives real positive shift and more clearance on the gears so less chain rub on extremes.

42 Cassette is only for the 1 ring setup this was due to the chain length i believe being to long and creating too much slap. (no one likes it slapping about)

Rear mech has external adjuster now for the clutch spring.

The side swing mechs are also designed to work with specific chainsets the pickups are in a different place to normal.

Brakes are pretty much unchanged just a slightly different bite point to previous models.

When you ride it is very light weight shift and feels really positive this will definitely be a big groupset for Shimano and will set the bench mark.

Don't rate the pedals.

a good shot at rescuing xt really, as slx had pretty much made it irrelevant in aftermarket terms (OEM on complete bikes still get's showroom kudos I s'pose).

be good for the carbon race 29er I'm not allowed to buy. Hmmmmm.

As with xtr the cassette still uses the 10spd body the offset on the last ring sits over the top of the spokes so no need for daft expensive body changes

Is the 42 a separate sprocket? I know the 40t is on XTR, so seems plausible.

a good shot at rescuing xt really, as slx had pretty much made it irrelevant in aftermarket terms (OEM on complete bikes still get's showroom kudos I s'pose).

So could I run the new 11-42 cassette on my 10spd system thus not having to piece together expander / 16t etc.

You need a new chain, rear mech and shifter, but no new freehub body. So... sort of.

All I want is xt cassette and rear mech with xtr shifter. Then I'll use any old chain and ring same as usual.

Go on then, that'll be no problem... 😕

maes you wonder why they bother with twp pricepoints between budget and race. I guess they know better than me though

(thinking about it 2 x product launches every 2 years pays for the 2 x tooling and the r&d's pretty much nonexistant at that point- doh)

My initial thoughts;

- It looks a lot prettier than XTR
- I don't get the get the 'it's killed SRAM 11-speed', as pointed out, a 10 versus 11 tooth sprocket adds a lot of range (because maths).
- The rear mech looks as though it still has a cheap and nasty plastic clutch switch - the low end Zee gets a nice metal one - why?
- Hope I'm reading it wrong that the shifter has lost multishifting down the block - I do that all the time.

Cool, I fancy some 11 speed on the XC bike but don't fancy getting uber mega spendy, Been holding out for the new brakes. I'm still confused by the cassette situation though. I assume you can run the 40/11 on a single? This would suit me better when I'm mincing about, 36/11 is perfect for racing but it can be a drag on longer rides as I've got a 34 up front, one moar click would be nice.

EDIT - Nevermind, there's been about 40 replies since I started typing, I got distracted...

well thats me not buying the xtr 11speed stuff now......

this looks exactly what im after at an affordable price 🙂

Great, back to Shimano for me - should work out quite well with the timing when I wear out my XX1 cassette 🙂

XTR shifter & mech, XT cassette. sorted. Just don't listen to my inner weight weenie. it's going to be a bucketload heavier than the XX1 cassette.

Makes me kind of pissed of I've just spent a load of money converting 2 bikes to 10 speed!

Its nice looking kit though

I like the looks on the cranks.

The SRAM fanbois "well it's still not got a 10 tooth, lots more range on SRAM"

If I want more range I'll put a double on the front. I'd rather have a 12 or 13 tooth than an 11, then a smoother cassette with smaller jumps.

But then I'm a Luddite.

More range on shimano really designed with more than just 1x in mind its available still in double & triple chainsets as well.

good info, thanks for sharing rottweiler

so when the time comes I'll just need a shifter, rear mech and cassette

should work fine on existing 10sp freehub and a SSC narrow-wide ring?

11-42t with Shimano quality will do me fine

should work fine on existing 10sp freehub and a SSC narrow-wide ring?
11-42t with Shimano quality will do me fine

Correct!

Why? X0 cost more than XTR previously, let alone XX! X9 has always been between XT and XTR etc. It's basically the same price as GX.

SRAM pricing has always been odd, people try and correlate to Shimano hierarchies (which are nice and clear), but IMO that doesn't really stack up!

Exactly this. GX with the 1000 series chainset works out at £360 RRP (Without BB) so for the first time in a long time they have 2 groupsets that line up head to head in that respect.

Well....I'm not buying Sram now for sure. This is brilliant! Glad to see one major company trying to keep costs down to a sane level! 75 quid for a cassette is just about acceptable!

This will be going on my Nukeproof Scout build! 😀

I think the cranks look lovely...much nicer than the XTR ones. I think this'll win Shimano lot of fans - 11 speed with good range for sensible money. It's also compatible with traditional cassettes. I just wish they'd go the other way with their shifters making them more definitive in the shift.

I'm a big Sram fan and love the clunkiness of their shift action. I also prefer the ergonomics of their shifters having said that, after 10 years or so on Sram I switched back to Shimano last year because their clutch mechs are better and make my bikes quieter. Will be interesting to see what Sram do now. I wonder if they've got a cheaper 11 speed groupset waiting to go just in case something like this happens.

I'll probably make the change once there are more 11 speed chains...I hate Shiamno chains.

Rescue and then kill it again in 2017 with 11 speed SLX.

And revive it again with Di2 XT 😉

More range on shimano really designed with more than just 1x in mind its available still in double & triple chainsets as well.

GX has a double now doesn't it? Yeah shim have 3x but who is that aimed at?

Having just bought a bike bedecked in SRAM X01 (my first SRAM and my first 1x setup) and rather liking it, I'm not full of angst about this launch. More choice is great for anyone building a bike up right now. You can bet you'll see this group on loads of 2106 bikes announced at Sea Otter, Eurobike, Interbike etc. Shimano have done a great job here. It's be bombproof, too. And I agree, the cranks look lovely.

rhayter, for you maybe not a big deal. But have you seen the price of XO1 mechs? I regularly murder rear derailleurs to death, XT 11 speed will be great! And the cheaper cassettes will be brilliant for mile munching! X01 cassettes are double the cost!

This is great news.

11?

FFS, I'm still working through my stash of 9 speed...

[IMG] [/IMG]

I've rarely read as much guff as that wot is printer in the shimano launch text that I have just read on pinkbike.

Trail rated for power

optimized, shallow slant angle

Rider Tuned 11-speed

FFS, I'm still working through my stash of 9 speed...

Ride more! 🙄

I'll probably make the change once there are more 11 speed chains...I hate Shiamno chains.

Poor as Shimano chains are, with KMC and SRAM both doing decent, affordable 11spd chains that are readily available now, I don't see what's stopping you...

Great to hear that Shimano are stepping in the right direction again, but I do still think there's a gaping hole in the market for an 11-40 or 11-42 SLX or Deore level 10spd cassette right now. Not everyone is bothered by the arms race of having yet more and more gears, but for most of us, range is crucial.

bet that cassettes a boat anchor,

Yeah shim have 3x but who is that aimed at?

Elderly Germans on Santos touring bikes.

Great to hear that Shimano are stepping in the right direction again, but I do still think there's a gaping hole in the market for an 11-40 or 11-42 SLX or Deore level 10spd cassette right now. Not everyone is bothered by the arms race of having yet more and more gears, but for most of us, range is crucial.

Never going to happen, not from either of the big S's... Their rather obvious philosophy will always be, [i]"if you want more range buy one of our lovely new groupsets with extra cogs..."[/i]

Why help you nurse "old" drivetrains for several more years when they make more money flogging you a whole new one, ideally fitted to a shiny new dandyhorse...

What's all the fuss about?

Looks nice..

@ Tom_W1987
Don't get me wrong; it IS a big deal – brilliant kit* that's comparatively affordable. Excellent stuff. I only got X01 because it came on the bike I bought. I've never mangled a derailleur in 20+ years of rising, so I've been lucky...

*assuming it's up to Shimano's usual standard.

I'm still not seeing what the benefit of going from a 3x10 to a 1x11 setup is, apart from a weight saving perhaps?

Assuming you run a NW chainring, and don't need a chain device. You save the weight of a shifter, two chain rings and a front derailleur. Not to mention a bit of cable..
what we talking here? 450g? How far off the gearing is it from the granny gear on a 3x10 setup?

I'm assuming the new XT 2x11 still wont work on a 5?

I'm still not seeing what the benefit of going from a 3x10 to a 1x11 setup is, apart from a weight saving perhaps?

Not to cover all the ground of all the other threads...

Having a linear path through the gears is great, the jumps are much smaller than touching a front mech.
The range is really really good, and only has 1 of each gear rather than a huge overlap.
You get chain security, less excess chain due to having to accommodate gears you will never use and better clearance from getting rid of the 40+t ring.

On this it's good but still not awesome. Great on a budget but still seeing the 10t as the killer feature from SRAM, the difference at the top there allowing a lower front ring to be used is key to making the 1x work.

Tom_W1987 - Member
... But have you seen the price of XO1 mechs? I regularly murder rear derailleurs to death,

Perhaps not to speak out of turn but that may be you not the mech? Once is unlucky, twice is careless, three times?

will definitely be saving up for 2 x 11 xt for my old duster bike. the groupset looks lovely,and reasonably priced too 😀

racefaceec90 - Member
will definitely be saving up for 2 x 11 xt for my old duster bike.

Now please don't take this the wrong get way but what does 2x11 give you over 2x10? Considering you can run 24/39 up front as a spread does the 40t rear add enough to go for the 11sp?

42 Cassette is only for the 1 ring setup this was due to the chain length i believe being to long and creating too much slap. (no one likes it slapping about)

😯

FFS, I'm still working through my stash of 9 speed...

That'll take a while, as 9 speed lasts forever!

Phew nearly did £130 on a xtr 11 cassette a few weeks back - and thats only 40t
(I'm in the 40-42T gear camp for get you home after you've gone up the hills in the others BTW.)

So this is great...a lot more choice for us and its reasonablish in price.

9 Speed XT rocks! I'm pretty happy with it on my hardtail, the shifting is very light and smooth, better than the SRAMesque shifting on 10 speed XT IMHO.

That'll take a while, as 9 speed lasts forever!

Ha, even I remember people being up in arms about how terrible longevity was on 9 speed compared to 8!

[i]That'll take a while, as 9 speed lasts forever! [/i]

I'll say - I'm still using up my CRC Flood Sale stuff.

Wear out damn you.

I'm getting way more life out of my 10 speed stuff than I ever did my 9 speed stuff. 2 years on my current cassette, had one that lasted 3 years already.

Liking the look of that, was going to switch 2 bikes to 1x10 in the next couple of weeks think I'll just do 1 and switch the other to 1x11 next year instead.

I'm still not seeing what the benefit of going from a 3x10 to a 1x11 setup is, apart from a weight saving perhaps?

FFS, I'm still working through my stash of 9 speed...

I have 9 speed too. It's a pain having several bikes of different ages with different numbers of cogs when trying to bodge one together for this weekend.

The wheels I want to use are modern and have one more cog than the 8 speed shifters on the bike I want to bring.

<cough> still on 8 speed here, one cassette and chain left <cough>