100mm xc or 130mm trail hardtail: Which compromise

If Planet X do cycle to work, then my other suggestion would be for a new updated Scandal. My friend rides one for the exact riding you describe.

The Ribble probably will feel like riding a super tanker at first but it doesn't mean it's bad, just different from what you're used to. I would see if you can get a test ride on a similar style of bike. It will feel weird during a car park test but point it downhill and it should make much more sense.

It's worth noting that longer wheelbases and steeper seat tube angles have made climbing much easier. I had a MK2 Cotic BFe that would constantly lift at the front on steeper climbs, my new LLS 29er hardtail is infinitely better at climbing and descending but does feel odd on the flat when I've just been on my gravel bike.

There at quite the extremes of what you could get.

There are slacker 100mm hardtails out there. Scott Scale, Vitus Rapide. 100mm travel but 67ish head angle sitting somewhere between long low slack and racing XC. Not sure what you could get on cycle2work though.

I've got a Scandal, which is slack and 130mm. It's great fun to ride but I find it a chore on long rides compared to bikes I've had in the past. I don't think this is entirely down to head angle and fork length though. Big tyres feel slow but might not actually be that much worse in terms of speed. World cup XC riders are opting for 2.4" tyres. Just don't pick ones with massive knobbles on like I have! Stack might be important. The Scandal is quite upright so a long way from my CX bike and road bike, again feels slower.

The length and pig wheels don't bother me. It doesn't feel as twitchy but that wasn't actually a useful feature on an XC hardtail. I've got a Whyte S150mm which very long. It's also heavy. But once you get a feel for it you adapt and it rides really well.

My suggestion is "none of the above". Try and find something in the 100-120mm range that is slacker than the Dial.

A decent 29er probably climbs better than most 26ers - particularly on anything remotely technical. On a smooth tarmac climb or fireroad I’m not so sure if it’s a lot heavier / has draggier tyres.

Like the poster above - why not look at the current Scandal - it’s somewhere between the 2 bikes you’re looking at.

For your stated riding you don’t need / want 2.5” tyres - something 2.25”-2.3” will do the job fine. The Ribble looks like it comes with an Assegai / Dhr2 combo which will feel insanely draggy to you and which I wouldn’t want to use on the road.

Maxxis Dissectors or something with even less tread would probably do the job for you. What tyres are on your 26er?

My suggestion is “none of the above”. Try and find something in the 100-120mm range that is slacker than the Dial.

+1

If I don’t like the slackness can I reduce the travel of the forks and undo it a bit?

The travel has been spec'd around the rest of the bike geometry and build - reducing travel won't make the bike a lightweight xc bike, so that is likely not to achieve the effect you hope for.

I’m used to lovely lightweight 26inch 2.1 wheels with low rotating mass, do these 29×2.5 monstrosities feel like riding a tank? Am I worrying about nothing?

I think your worries are fair. Modern agressive hardtails are hefty bikes aimed at agressive riding, with parts to match. That is great if you ride aggressively, powering into corners and hammering through roots etc. So the Ribble will likely be faster and more fun in those places. But on a slow climb in the South Downs, it will be heavier and the tyres it comes with will drag.

The question is where you want the bike to perform best and also how you ride (I have a modern long/slack hardtail - it needs a fair amount of 'body english' to get the fun out of it).

That Ribble comes with huge chainstays - 455mm - almost as long as a Hello Dave. I can't imagine that it's going to feel very agile.

The reply above is fair comment. The standard rule applies- buy the bike for the majority of riding you do. If you're managing to get round the Surrey hills/ occasional trail centre ride on your current bike, then pretty much any modern bike (within reason) would be an improvement.
It's all about the level of compromise. For the record, the vast majority of my riding is South Downs, and I ride an on one whippet and find it to be a great bike for xc riding. Would be even better if I added a dropper post.

I have a whippet also. As a xc bike I really like it. Although it replaced a 26inch wheel rock lobster 853 I got 20+ years ago!!

Did I write the OP in my sleep? Keeping a close eye on this as this is also what I need. A giant, light BMX bike for the days when the CX bike isn't quite enough. Red route faster in the FoD type stuff.
Would a 26er with some longer forks and a 650b front wheel work? That would slacken things off a bit.
As an example a On one 456 or Inbred?

We need to come up with fine specific bikes with in the range between the Dial and Riblle Hard Tail.

So far we have

Scott Scale and vitus rapids

Which are great shouts in didn’t know about

https://vitusbikes.com/collections/rapide/products/vitus-rapide-29-vr-mountain-bike-2022

The Scott geometry looks good to me. A good fork but a few weak spots in the build

https://www.scott-sports.com/gb/en/product/scott-scale-960-bike

It’s a shame they don’t do the broken road in a cheaper material. A mate has one. Geometry looks great but the 2k build isn’t great

The specialized chisel looks good but not a great build for £2k

https://www.specialized.com/gb/en/chisel/p/199640?color=319921-199640

The sonder Frontier is slightly older geometry. But still has 68 degree head angle. If you phone them up they’ll do a great build on that for 2 grand. I must say I’m quite tempted myself

I've had a Broken Road and a Frontier. I've still got the Frontier (although I'm about to sell it as I'm riding my Chisel more). In my view having done long days and bike packed on both the Frontier is a great xc/light trail bike. Geo might not be bank up-to-date, but it rides well.

Clink has beaten me to it. If you're looking at a Dial, why not a Frontier?

I had a quick spin on the Ribble (around Verderers and some of the other tracks at FOD) and really liked it but I cannot afford (or need) to replace my hardtail.

Especially as you already have a gravel bike for the flatter bridleways

I have a SC Chameleon to do exactly what you want -  it's the brown carbon one.  it has 120mm travel with medium angles - I find it's perfect for pootling around - but capable when needed.

Specialized fuse is worth a look. 130mm fork. 66.5 HA. Adjustable chainstay length. Can even run 27.5" rear IIRC.

I don't think 130mm or even 140mm Travel is a compromise on a hardtail, as a few have said it's tyre size/tread/compound which is probably the biggest one. Then geometry (if it's really extreme), then weight pretty low down the list.

Weight might be quite different between the two bikes. Modern trail bikes are quite a lot heavier than older XC bikes. If you're light you will notice a few extra KGs on a bike and on a long ride it becomes a bit tiring. If you're heavy you probably won't notice.

Thanks all for the suggestions, Clink might have a winner. The Frontier is specced with 2.8 inch 27.5 wheels as standard so I had overlooked it first time round, but I will ask Sonder if they can stick some sensible wheels on instead.

Unfortunately the Halfords/cycle2work vouchers are quite restrictive and so anything from OnOne or Vitus is off the table.

Voodoo Bizango carbon pro might have been lovely but nobody is optimistic about there being any stock any time soon.

The Scott and Specialised suggestions would work but the specs look miles worse, I could get a Sid on the Sonder, but it would be Recon or Judy on the big name brands.

Maxxis Dissectors or something with even less tread would probably do the job for you. What tyres are on your 26er?

Maxxis Aspens at the moment, which are useless in the mud but a joy otherwise. And bizarrely puncture proof despite weighing so little.

I expect that I might want to put some lighter tyres on the new bike once I settle into it.

(nod to Ampthill for being first to suggest the Frontier, missed that first time)

I live on the South Downs. To me a trail hardtail is 65 deg, 150mm forks, 170mm dropper and 2.6 tyres. I don't notice any difference in terms of effort on the climbs compared to my yesteryear XC bikes which were 1.5kgs lighter. In fact there is less fatigue on epics. I agree it is counter intuitive and I would not have believed it a few years ago.

But the bottom line is that I don't sacrifice anything on "XC" routes as I am not racing and I have more fun on the "trails" or more challenging stuff.

Big 29” tyres feel so slow and heavy to respond vs skinny 26” ones when you pedal - but they carry so much more speed, up, down or along. They might “feel” slower but they’re definitely more efficient and faster. The difference is particularly obvious on the back of a hardtail - which is why XC race bikes switched first. Regarding the South Downs, I wonder how long ago was the last time someone did the South Downs Double (there and back in 24 hours) on a 26” bike?

A new geometry bike will feel really weird at first but you’ll adapt quickly enough and never want to go back. Last year I had a family holiday where we pottered about a bit on Dutch bikes and when I came home my big modern MTBs felt broken for a day or two!

The Ribble does look too downhill focused - it’s not far off my Moxie 160mm hardtail in geometry. The Sonder Dial looks a bit XC race but if you didn’t have a gravel bike as well I think it would be a good choice. The Frontier is a bit high of BB for 29” bike - looks like it’s been designed for 27.5+ (although 29” will fit).

One word of caution around Ribble:

Accounts are now 2 months overdue.

Companies House has posted a first gazette notice for compulsory strike-off.

Sonder Frontier fits the bill and Sonder will customise the build to your requirements.

Unfortunately the Halfords/cycle2work vouchers are quite restrictive and so anything from OnOne or Vitus is off the table.

Plenty of independent bike shops will take Halfords C2W vouchers though too, you don't need to spend it in store with Halfords...

Personally, for your type of riding, I'd err more towards the XC end of the scale than to the heavy duty trail bikes. If you were riding trail centres every other weekend and/or doing lots of natural technical riding, I'd go the other way, but I think for what you describe a slightly more conventional (for lack of a better word) 29er with up to date XC geometry, a 100-120mm fork and provision for a dropper post with some fast rolling 2.3" tyres will be right up your street.

One word of caution around Ribble:

Accounts are now 2 months overdue.

Companies House has posted a first gazette notice for compulsory strike-off.

Yep, that would have me avoiding them for now.

I bet they won't be the only ones over the next year.

You've largely described my riding location / use (although without the long distance stuff).

Absent my current FS29r or something similar a middle of the road geometry 29r with 120mm forks and good tyre clearance would be my choice within your constraints.

I tend to ride tyres around 2.2/2.3 and find it's a decent drag/grip balance. For places like Coed Y Brenin as a non-hucker I find that's enough on the FS but on hardtail I might put a tougher/fatter rear tyre on.

I do like a fat 2.3 up front and something faster rolling and slightly narrower out back.

Given that you also have a gravel bike - I would be erring towards the 'modern trail bike' end of the scale in your position.

for what its worth - racy 100mm travel hardtails do have their place, as I am currently looking for one - as a replacement for a gravel bike!

Had a similar dilemma - I had a xc race 29er hardtail that's 9 years old - quite old school. Very fast on things like the South Downs but fancied something different.

Ended up with a Whyte 529 which is a 120mm trail HT with what seems like modern geo. Felt like a tanker at first and with 2.4 tyres it feels very draggy on the road. However it's a lot more capable than the old xc 29er going down. Much more grip, much more stable, much more fun. Might be a bit of a half way house. The drag on roads is a mindset thing. I just chill out now, go steady and look at the scenery.

Other options I looked at where the specialized chisel - modern xc geo, look amazing but still too close to my old one for me and BMC two stroke which did look great - 67ha for an xc bike.

More trail options might be trek Roscoe 7 and up, Merida Big Trail

You're in a similar position to me, I'm finally ditching my trusty old 2010 Hardrock 26" (albeit much upgraded) for something XC and more modern.

Equally, I do my commuting on a gravel bike.

I've spent hours trying to compare geometry on websites and the like, unfortunately the bikes I want are online only so difficult to get a comparison. My missus has a Liv Tempt so a quick blast of that has at least shown up some of the points above about climbing and rolling

I went straight from a 26 wheel 100mm forked steel hardtail on 2.1 tyres to a 130mm 29er steel hardtail on 2.4 tyres.

In almost every off-road situation (fireroad to FoD off-piste) the 29er is better and more comfortable/capable. The only time I miss 26 inch wheels/shorter fork is in tight twisty singletrack.

It is Steelfreaks last sentence that concerns me. What will do this and rattle down the Verderers and not weigh a ton or handle like my brother e full susser running 29/650b?
Nothing I expect.

“What will do this and rattle down the Verderers and not weigh a ton or handle like my brother e full susser running 29/650b?”

My 29” hardtail has the same 160mm fork and similar build kit and similar geometry to my 160mm e-full-sus and they certainly don’t handle or feel the same!

From Halfords / Tredz you could get a Boardman - you could do a lot worse than one of these as an all rounder:

https://www.boardmanbikes.com/gb_en/products/2182-mht-8.9.html

Has a Reba fork at 120mm travel which is very decent for the money. Just change out the sx rear mech for a GX one and away you go for barely more than £1000.

Weighs 29lb standard and you could easily get done weight off over time via the cassette, cranks and wheels should you want to.

Wheels are tubeless compatible and Vittoria Barzos are decent allroubdeds that roll ok.

Geometry wise it’s fairly xc without being too racey. Just check the length of the seat tubes would work for you if you wanted to add a dropper post.

Surprised the BMC Twostroke hasn’t been mentioned yet, serious bargains available from c£670 has a 67 degree head angle, 100mm fork and is quite modern ‘being low ish and slackish, for an XC focused bike.

I'd go for the longer travel HT.

I have a gravel bike and then bought an On One Whippet with similar geometry to the Sonder. Didn't last long before I sold it as it trod on the GB toes. Now building a longer travel HT.