[Closed] 10 years of trying to get on with drop bars...

I grew up a mountain biker - I have the same issue. Drop bars are utterly alien to me.

I have had 3 road bikes and 2 "gravel adventure" bikes over the last 10yrs and all with varying styles of drop bars, and I have never felt comfortable on them. My hands ache. My back hurts. I feel hunched / cramped.

It's a very personal thing. I've never had any of these problems. If you hadn't had 5 bikes I'd say it was a bike fit thing or incorrect bar size. But who knows, maybe you just don;t get on with the position.

However, off road they're not really very practical. It's a big compromise that only really makes sense if you do a lot of road/gravel miles.

Ever had a proper bike fit?

I've never felt comfortable on them, but it might just be that I've never had a road bike that "fitted".

Going to make a commuter out of a second hand road bike this summer and I think i'll just go straight to flat bars. Can put some normal disc brakes on too.

It's really just a setup issue by the sound of it. Your stem is flipped up and you've got a lot of stem spacers which is a recipe for the symptoms you describe.

Drop bar bikes need to be set up with a good reach to the hoods and quite a bit of saddle to bar drop, otherwise you'll not be able to get in a comfy position.

I'd have another go. Aim for a setup that looks more like this.

[img] [/img]

Those skinwalls are giving me the fizz.

Yum.

😀

Bless you!

Classic DTF.. 😆

I'm not joking

They look daft.

never been able to ride drop bars. always ridden flat bars on my tourer.
also like jones bars which give a couple of nice positions.

[img] [/img]

Yep, drops are rubbish off road.

[img] [/img]

Great replies guys. Thanks for sharing

I think too it ultimately comes from being a mtbr and having lots of back issues over the years which puts me upright.

David your setup makes my back want to be sick! It looks so aggressive

I think a bike fit would ultimately help the scenario but after the the stack this week I have decided to try flat bar commuting. Certainly will feel more in control

Thanks again guys

Something I've noticed recently is the number of people that ride drop bars with straight or almost straight arms. Only been riding drop bar bikes for a couple of years but when I first got one was told to drop elbows and use core to support body not hands. Verycomfortable like that.

I've previously ridden drops on road cx and mtb but recently over the last few years found them particularly uncomfortable and gone back to normal mtb bars

Many years ago when I did a lot of youth hostel touring the "correct" bar placement for drop bar tourers was top of bars level with seat. With everyone wanting to be TDF riders nowadays fashion decrees a really low bar position which is inherently much less comfy ( biomechanics innit!)

Sure your body can adapt to this very low bar position but its putting huge stress on your body to do so and until your musculature adapts it will be uncomfy.

I think the issue is that many people are not racing but touring on their drop bar bikes but are attempting to adopt a race position

whenever the question of wide drop bars comes up, the general consesus is that you dont need them, that a good bike fit will sort you out.

I am not that bothered about having a minimal profile going into the wind etc, but I do like the option to change positions on the bike and get a semi decent desending position. I should probably just go with flat bars and bar ends but then you have the faff of converting road shifters and brakes.

I think there is definatley a gap in the market, I have just bought some O-O Midge bars (not tried them yet) but they are only 554 end to end, I would like to see some at about 600-750.and maybe the greater use of those CX type extra brakes on the flats.

Drop bar bikes need to be set up with.... quite a bit of saddle to bar drop, otherwise you'll not be able to get in a comfy position.

Otherwise, it's an affectation.

A lot of people would be better off with flat barred 700c bikes, but there's no pro sport using them to look up to…

Long time rider ( 20 years + ) and long time bad back sufferererer. Dropping the front end of my fast bike by 5cm actually helped my fit and comfort significantly.
The issue for me was not enough set back in relation to saddle / bb.

I'm saying this as it's hard to guess what causes the symptioms without a bike fit.

I'd suggest it would be worth doing before you give up.

Bars are in the wrong place, that is all. Correctly set up they will be comfortable and relaxed, offering complete control and comfortable braking. You should spend about a third of your time riding on them, for speed, control and braking.

Without seeing you it is hard to commment. Do you spend all your time on the hoods? Elbows locked or have some bend? Have a picture? The normal problem is that the bars are too far away, often too low. This assumes your saddle is in the correct place to begin with. I always start at the saddle, get that right, then bar position is a matter of comfort.

Careful OP, the rabid drop bar fanatics will tell you are wrong, despite all your years of trying. They just don't understand that flat bars are better for most people, especially off road.

People said my tourer would handle like crap when I converted it to flats, but hey it handles really well and is comfy, but they don't want to hear that.

Enjoy your new comfort ride!

Mary bars for real comfort. Put your hands / wrists in a natural relaxed position. North road bars if yo want to go lower

Or yours didn't fit either and probably should also consider a session.

Or yours didn't fit either and probably should also consider a session.

See what I mean? 😉

I have Mary bars on 2 of my bikes. I only fitted them to my 29+ as I didn't have any others that fitted the stem I wanted to use, absolutely spot on. I'm just about to fit some to the Gravel bike to replace the drops, as I rarely ride it as is.....

However in the spirit of following the crowd , I perservered.

^Mistake no.1

F*** fashion, use what works for you.

I use drops on my ATB/tourer, high and wide-swept cruiser type bars on ute/shopper. Don't currently own a MTB but when did I found that Mary bars worked best for me. Demoed some wider-style (read modern) MTB bars on a plus setup recently and they felt good too.

Thinking about it, not one of my bikes past and present would ever pass a fashion test 🙂

I reckon there are two issues here...

1. Your road bike probably doesn't fit you right.

2. You are rightly sceptical about drop bars for off-road riding. I find them rubbish for anything techy - and you'd probably be better with a 29er HT unless you're just riding "gravel".

*runs off to grab hard hat*

I've a drop bar bike i ride off road, i quite like it but not on hardcore stuff.

Lots of the drop-bar off road types have their bats set really high.

I prefer flats for more demanding off road stuff.

Honestly; try my suggestion. If you've got a turbo trainer, it'll be easier to try it on that.
Remove all your spacers and turn your stem so it's facing downward. Looks like you've got an inline seatpost, so push your saddle back a bit. Sit on your bike (but don't clip in, let your legs hang freely). Now place your hands in the drops; providing your bars are low enough and far enough away, you'll have no choice but to rotate your pelvis forward to reach them. And hey presto, that's your position for a drop bar racing bicycle.
Lowering the nose of the saddle ever so slightly might help.
Your arse will stick out backwards, so a setback seatpost might help.
You'll probably need to readjust saddle height (lower it) as you've effectively lengthened the reach your leg has to make.
A narrower saddle will probably be more comfortable.

Just curious - why is everyone so adamant that the OP should go for drop bars? What's so awesome about drop bars off road?

Just curious - why is everyone so adamant that the OP should go for drop bars? What's so awesome about drop bars off road?

have we just read the same thread? Seems a balance of "because they're crap", "give them another try with a different bike set up" and "ride what you want". And where are the claims that they are "awesome off road"?

I'm a fan of drops, I find them all-day-long comfortable on the road bike, and quite capable off-road. My CX bike has drops, and I think that they reach a similar limit to the rest of the bike; by the time it's gnarly/rooty/rocky enough for me to want fatter tyres and suspension, I also want wide flat bars.

Your stem is flipped up and you've got a lot of stem spacers

Looks like you've got an inline seatpost

Iz confused- has the OP posted a pic of the bike that I can't see? I'm starting to feel paranoid lol

I'm very close to building up, or buying a road tourer.

Been looking at the usual suspects, Trek 920, Specialized Sequoia and the other variants of this type of do it all bike.

Been riding bikes , both mtb and road for donkeys years. Always rode with drop bars on a road bike.

Always viewed anything other than drop bars on a road bike as a bit naff, listened to all the arguments about the varied hand positions, but in reality only rode on the hoods and close to the stem.

Never had a problem with flat bars on mtb, then I briefly had a Jones.......

Seriously considering buying a Singular Swift and making a road based tourer using the Jones bars. Now that's a lot of different hand positions, and plenty of space for a bar bag, Garmin and lights.

Pretty sure I won't be going drop bar on a tourer, different matter if you are keen and want to race etc, but for most, a type of flat bar would be good.

Also makes it very easy to make the rest of the brakes (disc) and mtb gears ( to make it low enough) for proper grovel climbing.

I find comfort mostly on the flat part or just read of hoods but still not great for me

That sounds like the distance from saddle to bars is too long for you. Unless your back issues are such that even with a fairly short reach you are going to still have problems, or the top tube is simply too long whatever you do (i.e. too large a frame or a bike designed for flat bars rather than drops), the logical answer would be a shorter stem, assuming it would not need to be so short that it compromised the handling. You'll know if the stem length is 'right' because the instinctive natural place for your hands will be on the hoods. If the curve of the bars and the levers will allow it, rotating the levers on the bars back towards you will also effectively shorten the reach, and may give a more comfortable position on the hoods.

My hands ache. My back hurts. I feel hunched / cramped.

Unless your back issues are again the overriding factor, the fact that you feel hunched/cramped, and yet at the same time do not feel comfortable reaching the hoods, suggests the bars may be too low.

To state the obvious, the optimum position and set up on a drop barred bike for road racing - like in the image posted by David Taylforth above - is unlikely to be the optimum for more relaxed riding or even for 'letting loose off road'. It's all about horses for courses. If you are mainly using the bike for commuting and off road, then I would have thought that flat bars were the best choice anyway.

In contrast, if you were spending hours in the saddle and wanted to clock up the miles in comfort, then a classic drop barred touring position is likely to be best, even if it doesn't look fashionable. The cycletourists in this photograph are not going at any great speed, but are clearly very comfortable on their bikes and could probably happily maintain that position all day long:

[img] [/img]

tjagain - Member
Many years ago when I did a lot of youth hostel touring the "correct" bar placement for drop bar tourers was top of bars level with seat. With everyone wanting to be TDF riders nowadays fashion decrees a really low bar position which is inherently much less comfy ( biomechanics innit!)

Yup.

Take a look at the era when normal people used dropbar bikes for their general transport, mainly 1950s and 60s. They did many thousands of miles a year on their bikes.

You'll notice the bars tend to be level with the saddle, also the toptubes were usually shorter.

Bikes built these days have short headtubes, so to get the bars to a comfortable height means lots of spacers or a kinked up stem. Toptubes tend to be longer, so using the same length stem as you would use for flat bars is likely to mean you are reaching too far.

The Singular Gryphon is an example of a modern bike built for dropbars, but unfortunately it has been discontinued. It had a nice long headtube and a shorter toptube.

To ride a race position you have to be as fit as a racer or prepared to put up with a lot of discomfort. Think tourer or audax instead.

[url= http://g-tedproductions.blogspot.co.uk/2011/10/drop-bar-mountain-bike-tips-updated.html ]This is a pretty handy guide if you want to use drops on your mtb.[/url]

Iz confused- has the OP posted a pic of the bike that I can't see? I'm starting to feel paranoid lol

I'm assuming this is the bike.

[img] [/img]

It already has a short, high stem. Going even shorter and higher is likely to make things worse. I'm assuming you must be trolling, Slowster? The cycle tourists in the photograph above are old and unfit; do not copy the position of someone who rides with their bars rotated backward and the levers up in the air. Try and ride quickly down a steep lakeland pass in that position; you'll probably crash and hurt yourself (like the FW Sportivists do every year).

Here you go, every MAMILs favourite endurance bike, the Mason Definition. I'm assuming this must be comfy since it gets ridden 4000Km across Europe. Note the saddle to bar drop and flat back position.

[img] [/img]

yes, Denise99 -- look at the video that Lee Craig did for the Caledonian Way -- I think it was on a Shand but you get the picture, Jones bars, simple rigid steel bike -- as it happens Swift + Jones here and looking forward to some longer rides this year..

ah, looks like a front bus fork but get general idea.

Denis99 - Member
...Also makes it very easy to make the rest of the brakes (disc) and mtb gears ( to make it low enough) for proper grovel climbing.

You can get a dropbar that fits mtb brakes and shifters. I use them on my general purpose bike.

It is a very short drop.

davidtaylforth - Member
... Note the saddle to bar drop and flat back position.

If I was that fit, I'd probably set up like that too. That has the look of a rider who has ridden big mileages.

Two classic road bikes, note the seat to saddle heights. (Mate holding them, blue one is mine)
[url= https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5680/30400185202_dc148eea54_h.jp g" target="_blank">https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5680/30400185202_dc148eea54_h.jp g"/> [/img][/url]

Classic road bikes are ridden in the drops, not on the hoods though. They don't have compact bars either.
The bars on the blue one look wrong aswell; the flats at the bottom should be parallel with the ground.

Two classic road bikes, note the seat to saddle heights. (Mate holding them, blue one is mine)

Note how low on the bars the brake levers are in your photo. On a modern bike the brake levers will be the same height whilst having a lower stem due to bar geometry.

Back in the day it was impossible to get a tight bend in a handlebar. Materials and processes have improved and now most bars use a changing radius with flat ramps, thus stems have lowered whilst the fit has stayed the same.

Good bike-fit has not changed.

[img] [/img]

Crashtest: Apologies - I'm assuming that everyone who is giving the OP setup advice is doing so because they believe drop bars to be inherently superior to flat bars.

FWIW, I love drops for riding on tarmac and my CX bike gets used for touring a fair bit set up fairly similar to my road bike (fairly racy). Works great for me but I wouldn't assume it's better for anyone else. I've never really been excited by drops off road though - was kind of hoping someone might pipe up and elaborate on their experience.

Crashtest: Apologies - I'm assuming that everyone who is giving the OP setup advice is doing so because they believe drop bars to be inherently superior to flat bars.

I think everyone's point is that if he set them up differently he might not have the complaints he has about them rather than it being about drop vs. flats.

I'm exactly the same as the OP!

Years of trying and never felt comfortable and YES i've had a bike fit.

I'm far more comfortable (and faster) on a flat bar setup.

Everyone seems to think flats are for upright slow town hybrids etc.. but I don't see why you can't just set them in a similar position to a road bike.

David - the rider in the pic you say is great is putting his back in a position that is very damaging. Basic biomechanics. Low bars give you an aero advantage that is all.

Your normal spinal curvature is this [img] [/img]
the rider on low bars is flattening out their lumbar spine and hyperflexing their cervical spine. Now you can learn to adapt to that and more hip flexibility will allow you to retain a bit of the correct lumber carve but you still get the hyperflexion of the cervical curve. Adapting to that position thos will lead to invreased risk of lumbar spinal injury and muscle adaptation that is not at all good for you

If you race then the spinal risk is worth it for the areo but its inherently less comfortable and puts your back under such stress its going to increase your risk of long term damage significantly

David - the rider in the pic you say is great is putting his back in a position that is very damaging. Basic biomechanics

🙂

His spine is nice and straight, there is no hyperflexion anywhere. Look at the picture again.

If you race then the spinal risk is worth it for the areo but its inherently less comfortable and puts your back under such stress its going to increase your risk of long term damage significantly

It is an incredibly comfortable postion. I have ridden like that for miles and miles and years and years and have never had any back/neck issues.

TBF though, I've just looked at the imagine again and it is quite an extreme example. It looks like he's going downhill, he probably doesn't ride with a back like that on level piece of road. The image was intended to illustrate the point about position I was trying to make.

Saddle to bar drop is a red herring, everyone has different core strength.

Sit on your bike, hands on hoods.
Whilst maintaining body position, can you lift your hands off the bars and hold them behind your back, like a speed skater?

If you can't, you're leaning on the bars.
Eventually it will hurt.
Not great for bike control either.

Racing is different, but for long rides, it's a decent rule of thumb.

Maybe it's an age thing. I can ride quite happily all day with a good drop between saddle and bar and no problem in the drops. Mind you, I'm only 60 next year.

You must just have incredible core strength! 😀

While I'd certainly agree that flat bars have some advantages (and my own commuter has flat bars) I've certainly found drop bars the most comfortable option for longer rides. My old Roubaix is about as comfortable as a bike can get, and my setup has the saddle barely higher than the bars:
[img] [/img]

His spine is nice and straight, there is no hyperflexion anywhere. Look at the picture again.

Which is why its damaging - it should have 3 equal curves - the neck is hyper flexed and the lumbar region flattened.

You might have adapted to it but you are damaging your spine by doing so.

Its simple basic biomechanics.

[quote=davidtaylforth ]You must just have incredible core strength!

Maybe it's because my weight is taken by my stomach on the top tube?

scotroutes - are your bikes with drop bars not more old school tourer than TDF?

My Amazon (tourer/cx/grrrravel) is quite a bit more upright than my Cube Agree.

Not the best shot, but it'll give an idea.

[url= https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3791/33394614580_689faab0f4_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3791/33394614580_689faab0f4_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/SSY8sU ]DSC_0549[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/druidh2000/ ]Colin Cadden[/url], on Flickr

Not as extreme as DTFs example.

Rusty isn't wrong, and it is not really core strength. It is saddle position so that the weight is taken through the legs. Saddle too far back? You won't be able to do this. Saddle too far forward? Same thing. When the saddle is in the right position you'll be supporting your body comfortably and easily. Only then can you think about where to put the bars.

I can ride on the drops supporting my weight with just a middle finger of each hand. I'm not flexible, I done have a super strong core and I certainly don't do exercises for it. I just make sure that the weight is taken through my legs.

Saddle to bar drop is not aggressively stupid nor is the reach, but I was on the drops for nearly two hrs this afternoon at a stupid fast rate over some rougher roads where contol and braking are essential.

OP, my first thought if that's your bike, is that it looks a bit too big (based on short stem and that you spend all your time on top of the bars and hoods). I’ll your local to Windsor, drop me an email.

Here you go, every MAMILs favourite endurance bike, the Mason Definition. I'm assuming this must be comfy since it gets ridden 4000Km across Europe.

What a super fit cyclist/racer rides, and their position on the bike, is not necessarily what is best for everyone else. I would also be wary of making any assumptions about how comfortable a bike the Mason Definition is based purely on Josh Ibbett winning the TCR on it. Professional and sponsored riders ride what they are given/paid to ride: it's all part of the marketing to persuade MAMILs to buy those bikes.

I guess we are all coming at this based on our own personal experiences and preconceptions (including me: age and less flexibility means that, like the OP, I find it more comfortable with my hands on the flats of drop bars or behind the hoods rather than on them, and I am going to have to take my own advice and start switching to shorter stems). David Taylforth, I think you are relatively young, fit and flexible, and all I can say is prolong it for as long as you can and enjoy it while it lasts. As you say, the riders in the photograph I posted are old and (maybe) unfit, but crucially they are still riding and enjoying it, and they are probably not complaining on an internet forum that they cannot get comfortable on their bikes.

Classic road bikes are ridden in the drops, not on the hoods though.

I don't think that's true: you can find photographs of riders such as Coppi, Merckx etc. etc. on the hoods.

do not copy the position of someone who rides with their bars rotated backward and the levers up in the air. Try and ride quickly down a steep lakeland pass in that position; you'll probably crash and hurt yourself

I would not expect anyone on that sort of descent to have their hands on the hoods. What I am talking about is relative though: rotating the levers back a matter of millimetres on the bars may make a significant difference to hand position and support/comfort, providing of course that it is still possible for the fingers to reach the brake levers comfortably when in the drops.

What I have found frustrating with modern Ergolevers and STI shifters, is that they seem to be designed such that it is often not possible to rotate the levers even slightly back, depending upon the curves of the bars, presumably because the large flat surface on the top of those levers is intended only ever to be horizontal. An old style brake lever however could be rotated up or down the curve to fine tune the rider's position on the hoods. I don't think this is just me: when the second iteration of the Ergolever was introduced, there were reports that a number of pros stuck with the older shape, which meant their mechanics had to dismantle the older levers and rebuild them with the new internals.

davidtaylforth - Member
Classic road bikes are ridden in the drops, not on the hoods though. They don't have compact bars either.
The bars on the blue one look wrong aswell; the flats at the bottom should be parallel with the ground.

Nup. Set up exactly the same as I had it in 1963. Bar points to half way down the distance from the bridge to the seatstay.

Both my road bikes are flat bars, with bar ends. 46cm wide.

Never rated drops. Historical accident is how I see them.

The ergonomics of a bike are up to you. Look at MTBs FFS - see how the bars and geo and width and stems etc. have changed over time. Nothing is fixed, unless you think it's fine, or think it's not really fine but just adapt to it anyway. Which is fine.

I thought I'd have my road-ish bike reasonably upright to watch the world go by, but I found that I was just hunching forward onto the hoods. A bit more space to stretch out was actually more comfortable.

My Fargo is comfortable upright, but I think that's because it's designed to be, with a mahoosive headtube to place the drops at about the same height as a flat bar. Getting an actual road bike to that sort of height would just be daft.

What a super fit cyclist/racer rides, and their position on the bike, is not necessarily what is best for everyone else. I would also be wary of making any assumptions about how comfortable a bike the Mason Definition is based purely on Josh Ibbett winning the TCR on it. Professional and sponsored riders ride what they are given/paid to ride: it's all part of the marketing to persuade MAMILs to buy those bikes

I thought it was a useful example. But look at any other drop bar bicycle (apart from ones posted on this forum); they're setup with the saddle higher than the bars.

I think the OP has two options; set his bike up properly like I suggested, and benefit from increased comfort/handling/aerodynamics. Or fit a shorter stem and some more spacers; in which case he may aswell buy a shopping bike.

Which is why its damaging - it should have 3 equal curves - the neck is hyper flexed and the lumbar region flattened.

You might have adapted to it but you are damaging your spine by doing so.

Its simple basic biomechanics.

Do you have a glass back?

Nope - I understand the physiology and biomechanics of the back

I think the OP has two options; set his bike up properly like I suggested, and benefit from increased comfort/handling/aerodynamics.

But he himself states that he has back issues and that he is riding more on the flats and the rear of the hoods. If he is already finding the hoods an uncomfortable stretch, then lowering the bars further is simply not going to be the answer.

In general, I don't necessarily disagree with you about bars the same height as - or higher than - the saddle on a road bike. My own experience is that it unweights the front too much, especially when riding off road (although that can be overcome then by switching to the drops - and there is an argument for higher bars when someone finds it a struggle to stay in the drops for any length of time).

However, simply lowering the bars to the same position as a pro road racer is not the correct answer to what is the most comfortable and best/optimum position for everyone on a drop barred bike. Even pro riders themselves will sometimes raise their bars for more comfort, and Robbie McEwan needed the services of a chiropractor after every race/stage for his back.

What's so awesome about drop bars off road?

Multiple hand positions, being able to get upper body lower on fast flat sections, when on hoods arms in natural position (i.e. same as they are when resting arms by your side)

But he himself states that he has back issues and that he is riding more on the flats and the rear of the hoods. If he is already finding the hoods an uncomfortable stretch, then lowering the bars further is simply not going to be the answer.

In general, I don't necessarily disagree with you about bars the same height as - or higher than - the saddle on a road bike. My own experience is that it unweights the front too much, especially when riding off road (although that can be overcome then by switching to the drops - and there is an argument for higher bars when someone finds it a struggle to stay in the drops for any length of time).

I think he has back issues because he is trying to bend his back to reach the bars. I've explained in a previous post that to reach the bars he needs to rotate his pelvis forward, and by doing this there'll be no stress or tension in his back (contrary to what TJ believes).
However, this position can feel alien/be difficult to achieve if:

a. You're used to riding in the sit up and beg position (i.e on an mtb)
b. Your stem is too high and too short (this position lengthens your effective reach to the bars by a great deal), as this will give you no space to rotate in to.

My suggestion on the previous page was merely a way to get the OP to sit correctly on the bike. Setting his bike up at the extreme will give him no choice but to adopt the correct position. From there, it's easy to work out small changes as to where the contact points should be.

I have no idea what this position is like with regards to drop bar bikes and technical off road riding; for example, I prefer high riser bars on an MTB.

But for fast road/gravel riding, this is how you should sit on a bike. A high front end on a road bike is a handling nightmare.

Hopefully someone'll put this into practice, as it's probably the only useful contribution I've made to this forum 😀

You also don't need to be some super fit/flexible athlete either. I sit at a desk for most hours of the day and have tight hip and leg muscles (although I do stretch them every now and again).

Setting his bike up at the extreme will give him no choice but to adopt the correct position.

Or could injure him badly and affect his life forever after.

What a daft thing to say. Drop bars aren't for everyone, just accept it.

You have reinforced my first post anyway. 🙄

Or could injure him badly and affect his life forever after.

What a daft thing to say. Drop bars aren't for everyone, just accept it.

You have reinforced my first post anyway

😀

I'm just trying to help the OP, or anyone else who isn't an ignoramus.

It sounds like you're bitter/jealous of the "drop bar fanatics" who get to enjoy all the benefits of the racing bicycle. I bet you don't even wear lycra.

Be careful whilst you're making dinner; you might injure yourself badly and change your life forever.

Interesting, I see what you are getting at now. I must admit I am out of date on bike fit (although humans don't change, only the science or the opinions/errors of scientists), but about 15-20 years or so ago I think many coaches were advocating rotating the hips forward to get a better aero position, at which point there was a backlash and some studies pointed out that this was causing problems for many riders, e.g. cutting off blood flow to the penis/penile numbness etc. I don't know what the current state of the science is: a quick google seems to suggest some bike fit advisors are still recommending it, but that others advise against it, e.g. this [url= https://www.cervelo.com/en/engineering-field-notes/the-four-and-a-half-rules-of-road-saddles ]article[/url] on Cervelo's website on the wider issue of saddle fit etc. mentions similar.

It's probably the case that there is no absolute right or wrong answer as to whether rotating the hips and pelvis is a good or bad thing, and what will suit one person will not suit another, but I think its use was more associated with the triathlon/time trial side of the sport, i.e. sacrificing comfort to maximise aerodynamics and speed for relatively short distance/durations events.

At the end of the day, we are speculating about the cause of the OP's problems, and it's probably impossible to be confident of diagnosing them correctly remotely: all we can do is offer suggestions (some even conflicting) and it's up to the OP whether he tries any of them, although it sounds like money spent on a high quality bike fit session would be worth while, even if he decides to go with flat bars, i.e. to get at the root of the problem and better understand his own body (what should work for him, and what won't - as opposed to having spent 10 years peservering with something which might possibly be very easily remedied, and improve riding pleasure and performance hugely).

My own background is coming from the touring side of cycling, and the difference between very fit and fast hard riders and ordinary riders was not the position on the bike: everyone had a similar set up: the fast riders went faster because they were fitter (heart, lungs and legs), and if they needed to get more aerodynamic, they just switched from the hoods to the drops. There were none of the complaints that are so common today about being unable to get comfortable on a bike, and specialist bike fitting was pretty much unheard of. It's a debatable point whether we were ignorant of the potential performance gains we could have made by changing bike set up, or whether many modern riders are guilty of putting too much focus on improving performance by choosing a fundamentally uncomfortable position (e.g. 'slam that stem').

If you've come to road riding from an MTB background, I can understand how you might automatically seek to copy the position and set up of the pro road racers, but it might be better to start with a much more relaxed/comfortable position, and improve basic fitness and speed in that position, before experimenting with a more aggressive position.

Yes, sitting on your penis is probably not a good idea. I think alot of saddle discomfort is caused by having a seat too high.

I've posted these videos before, but worth a watch. I should've probably just posted them straight away TBH 😀

davidtaylforth - Member
...But for [b]fast[/b] road/gravel riding, this is how you should sit on a bike. A high front end on a road bike is a handling nightmare...

I don't disagree with your opinion here, but it is coloured by your bias towards fast. I suspect what you call a roadbike is what I'd call a racing bike.

The advantage I see in dropbars in what I call a roadbike is the ability to have a few different positions on a long day. For example, if I'm riding into a headwind when I'm heading west, which can be 30-40 miles, then being able to get down and lower my frontal area is good>

However I far prefer to be sitting up looking at the scenery. I am not a fast rider and have no ambitions to be fast or racey, but I'm still quite at ease knocking out 100-140 mile days. If there was no such thing as a headwind I'd just use a one position bar.

A high front end on a roadbike is only a problem if it has the wrong geometry for that set up.

the OP has made a schoolboy error by riding on the tops at a time when there was a possibility that he might need to apply the brakes . I would take a bit of time to reflect on this and then get back in the saddle and don't try to ride a droppie like you would a MTB .

Interesting videos, but a bike shop owner(?) and a couple of seemingly unimpressive amateur/novice riders are not good evidence for the correctness of the hip tilt approach.

Compare with the positions of road racers of the last couple of generations:

[u]Armstrong[/u]

[img] [/img]

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A couple of his bikes

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On the drops

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Time trial position

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[u]Greg Lemond[/u]

Descending. To get low, his elbows are bent at 90 degrees. He also used a very deep drop bar (Cinelli model 66 aka 'Eddy Merckx' I think), together with the traditional curve and quill stem which put the flats higher than the brake levers, that gave a lot of variation in position.

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In the drops with Fignon

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The 1989 TDF time trial position

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More recently

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[u]Pantani[/u]

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One of his bikes. He was quite short, but even so not much of a saddle to bars drop.

[img] [/img]

I'm amazed somebody tried something they didn't like for 10 years, 😯 seems a moronic way to go about things, I would have given it a couple of months to form an opinion not 10 years.

MrSmith wins the internet.

Position is personal. Plenty of road riders have straight backs, so while it's not for everyone, to write it off is silly.

DTF is definitely trolling

Dont people run more seatpost now than in those photos because of compact geometry has become the norm?

Did the online bike fit from here yesterday:
[url= https://www.competitivecyclist.com ]https://www.competitivecyclist.com[/url]

Gives you three fits, Eddy Merckx fit, Modern race fit and French fit, set mine up to Merckx and super comfy, landed up putting my seat up quite a bit and my seat forward a good whack and now have much happier knees, suddenly have forearms that are at 90 degrees rather than stretched out and the drops are easy to sit rather than a struggle, 15 minutes of taking funny body measurements well speant

hmm, just tried that Competitive Cyclist tool. I'm 177cm (5'10") with an 82cm (32") inseam. It told me to set my saddle-to-BB height at 83cm. How TF am I supposed to be able to pedal then?!