[Closed] 1 x 11 running costs

some info from me here

http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/anyone-running-sram-xx1-yet/page/3

[url= http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/xx1-x01-cassette-wear ]or try here[/url]

In a similar position - 1X11 curious and the bikes I am looking at are only £100 more expensive in xo1 flavour to 2X10 XT flavour.

To me the amount it will cost to run depends how much you end up using the silly soft aluminium last gear - if it's an emergency gear you only go to when you absolutely need to then I reckon it's liveable with. If (due to your fitness, the terrain you ride or the suitability of the front chain ring size) you end up in it for the majority of the majority of your climbs that £200 cassette might need replacing sooner than my wallet could handle.

Since I get through a minimum of two cassettes a year along with 4-5 chains, a couple of mechs and jockey-wheels plus front rings - I'd guess 1x11 will work out about the same cost as running my car (minus the fuel)...

We had the same discussion on Sunday when looking at one of my riding buddies' X01 cassette. The 42T is showing wear, after a couple of months/20 rides.

After ****ting my (shagged) drivetrain the previous ride I'd just put on a new cassette, chain, middle-ring and new/old rear mech. Total cost £73 - all XT 9-spd.

Since dec 2012 = 1x rear mech (bent), 1x jockey wheels, on the 2nd cassette and 4 chains.

if you're asking the question its probably not for you.

Since I get through a minimum of two cassettes a year along with 4-5 chains, a couple of mechs and jockey-wheels plus front rings - I'd guess 1x11 will work out about the same cost as running my car (minus the fuel)...

Why so many cassettes Bruce? If you change chain I see no reason not to get thousands of miles out of a cassette. Surely the expense is either multiple cassettes, or lots of chains, rather than both?

Nick

I change chains at 0.5, and at £14 a chain (SRAM cheapest 9-spd) it's a no-brainer - 3-4 rides per week in all weathers and only one bike I guess 🙂

I've tried running 1 chain further and it just seems to knacker the cassette/rings far quicker.

And rear mechs; we moved up to the Scottish Borders 2 years ago and I've broken 5 plus seem to be buying new jockey wheels inbetween breakages.

One of the reasons I'm still 9-spd, cost, and my lovely XTR shifters 🙂

TBH, after reading some of the user reports on wear, I'll be waiting until Shimano filter their 11 speed Cassette down to at least XT level (Probably more likely SLX knowing how cheap I am) before I consider 11 speed for an MTB... So that'll be along old wait for me then.

Given SRAM drivetrain's historical durability and the current X01/XX1 cassette prices? Shimano really do need to get a jolly on! I can see a fair few riders accepting 100-150g more weight and slightly reduced gearing range as a trade off for lower cost and better wear than X01...

In the interim One Up, Hope, General Lee, & Co' are the more [I]sensible[/I] choice for wide range 1xN, if you can live without a 10t sprocket. Buy XT/SLX/Zee do the "Bodge" thing and save a relative packet.

All IMO, etc, etc...

I change chains at 0.5, and at £14 a chain (SRAM cheapest 9-spd) it's a no-brainer - 3-4 rides per week in all weathers and only one bike I guess

I've tried running 1 chain further and it just seems to knacker the cassette/rings far quicker.

Absolutely, but by doing that, I'd expect cassettes to last many many thousands of miles, thus you'd not be needing a couple every year? Doesn't negate the exorbitant costs of the 11 speed cassettes (and mechs in your case), but I'd expect it to be more of an initial outlay than ongoing costs.

@toons "if you're asking the question its probably not for you."

Sort of agree but as I'm fairly good at drive train maintenance and happy to change the chain when it's worn I figure I can get decent mileage out of 1 x 11. I'm also keeping my HT which I'll use during winter so maybe running 1 x 11 between March and November will also keep the wear down. Also @toons your list of consumables seems reasonable for the time frame.

I'm based near Winchester so some thick, clay based, mud but not much in the way of grit so my XT cassettes last 2 years.

I have too much history of smashed mechs twisted chains and bent cassettes to spend that much. The almost always wet Lakes and bogs seem to accelerate wear.

Absolutely, but by doing that, I'd expect cassettes to last many many thousands of miles

I made an XTR cassette last years and many thousands of miles by regular chain changing - but I didn't measure the chain. I looked at the number of teeth the chain is actually binding onto on the cassette. I found that I had to change the chain a bit earlier than the 1/8" rule. That was back when chains were less than a tenner though.

I made an XTR cassette last years and many thousands of miles by regular chain changing

your XTR was made of steel

It was made of titanium, and it cost (although not me) £120 in 2001 when £30 was the normal cassette price, hence wanting to preserve it!

The alu cog on those cassettes is the big one though isn't it? As large or larger than a chainring on a triple, so surely it should last well enough...?

I got 760 winter/spring miles out of my X01 cassette before it started slipping on the steepest of climbs on the 42 ring (it did have a broken tooth as well though).
The chain was only worn to 0.5 so I changed that and the whole thing was a bag shite (in just the 42 ring). I changed the cassette last week and you can tell it's running better across the whole cassette not just the 42 ring so it must have been pretty worn across the lot.
Up shot is that it could have lasted longer had it not been for the wear on the 42 ring and I would've liked more out if it.

How much wear? 😯

Not to highjack the thread but I had no idea the latest offerings wore out that quickly and cost so much to replace. I've been running a Rohloff for years and with the latest 1 x 11 offerings I have to admit I've thought about going back to a traditional set up on the account of saving a little weight but.....I'll be sticking with my rolly!

Can you replace the 42s on their own?

Nope. The rest of the cassette is made from a single piece of metal but the 42 ring is aluminium and riveted onto to the rest of the cassette.

Having a replaceable 42 ring would make perfect sense. It's under more strain that the rest of the cassette so is always going to wear out quicker and needs to be the hardest wearing ... but no !

However it does have more teeth so should in theory be more durable.. but cassettes should be able to be repaired, full stop.

This is not a like for like though - your XTR was made of steel, these xo1 and xx1 cassettes have a cog made of aluminium. No amount of chain cleaning or swapping is going to account for that change unless you can avoid using the cog too much in day to day use.

Whilst your underlying point is right, you've got it the wrong way round - the larger sprockets on XTR are ti, which is softer than the steel of XX1/XO1. Yes ok, the biggest 11 speed sprockets are alu, but as observed, they're big ring sized, if you're wearing that out you're using the wrong sized chainring. There was talk of someone doing a replacement, forget who. Leonardi perhaps.

b r - Member
Nick

I change chains at 0.5, and at £14 a chain (SRAM cheapest 9-spd) it's a no-brainer - 3-4 rides per week in all weathers and only one bike I guess

I've tried running 1 chain further and it just seems to knacker the cassette/rings far quicker.

And rear mechs; we moved up to the Scottish Borders 2 years ago and I've broken 5 plus seem to be buying new jockey wheels inbetween breakages.

One of the reasons I'm still 9-spd, cost, and my lovely XTR shifter

You can get the shimano 9sp xtr chain between £12 & £15 now.

Having a replaceable 42 ring would make perfect sense

It would involve admitting that a One-Up was an adequate solution though.

🙂

Is 11sp the same size freehub as 10?

if you're wearing that out you're using the wrong sized chainring

Not sure I'd agree with that. My bike came with a 34t front ring and I dropped it to a 32t ring without altering the chain length (you wouldn't for 2 teeth) which in turn will have less tension and less friction resulting in less wear, in theory. Nearly all the 750 miles were on the 32t (anyone want to buy an X01 34t front ring with very little wear).

IMO the shear size of the 42 ring and the stress and tension it's under (not forgetting the clutch mech' too) results in the quick wear. Begs the question, why make it out of softer metal and why not make the 42 ring replaceable on it's own.

Lets see what Fisher/Sram say... email sent !

@excitable1 what email address did you send you question to? I'll ask the same question if you let me know 🙂

Blimey, seems a few of you guys should look into a Belt drive pinion gearboxes Nicolai 😉 I think I'd love to live somewhere I could ride enough to wear that much stuff out!

I also read about a replaceable 42t....

@leftyboy. There's no email address for Sram on their web site so I sent it to Fisheroutdoor. They've got a contact form on their web site but a copy came back via my email from sales@fisheroutdoor.co.uk

[i]Message: Some feed back for you to pass on to Sram please. The life expectancy out of the X01 & XX1 cassette for the 1x11 set up is unacceptable, especially on the rear 42 ring. I picked up a new bike in October last year and have done 760 miles on it throughout the winter and spring. 2 weeks ago it started slipping on the 42 ring but only on the steepest of climbs. I checked the chain and it had 0.5mm stretch on it so I decided to change the chain and get some more life out of the rest of the drive train (this is the advice Sram are giving out to local bike stores I'm told). The result was terrible and the 42 ring was unusable. So I've now changed the cassette and it's instantly back to it's best but I have to say that it was clearly only the 42 ring that was worn enough to warrant replacing the whole cassette. Clearly the 42 ring is not replaceable on it's own as it's riveted to the rest of the cassette but to make the ring that replaces the 2x at the front and that is under the most strain unreplaceable on it's own and worse still make it out of a softer metal (aluminium) seems madness. If I didn't know any better Sram could be accused of engineering a cassette which has to be replaced quicker than any other they've made because it's one of their most expensive and will generate a substantial income. There is an under lying current of displeasure among riders on the issue of durability of the 1x11 Sram drive train and riders are either swapping to other systems or not bothering at all with the up grade. As a minimum Sram should either make the 42 ring harder wearing or they should engineer a cassette where the 42 ring can be replaced on it's own. I am sure you will agree that £340 plus, every 760 miles is not fair on the riders, no matter how well it works. I'd welcome any feed back. [/i]

I have to admit that if I got to ride my MTB as much as I would like, I wouldn't have gone for xx1. I recon the cassette should last about 18 months - by which time there'll be something cheaper to replace it with.

Not sure I'd agree with that. My bike came with a 34t front ring and I dropped it to a 32t ring without altering the chain length (you wouldn't for 2 teeth) which in turn will have less tension and less friction resulting in less wear, in theory. Nearly all the 750 miles were on the 32t (anyone want to buy an X01 34t front ring with very little wear).

You miss my point. If you had a 30t ring you'd not use the 42 as much and it wouldn't wear. In most of my riding I don't use the 10 or the 42, which suggests to me I'm about right. I doubt I've done more than 5 miles in the 42.

What works for you may not work for someone else. The OP may ride v steep stuff on a v heavy gravity sledge of a bike and a load of other reasons. I think 32x42 is a reasonable ratio and I'd expect it to be fit for purpose - I.e. being used!

Watching carefully as thinking about 1x11 for a new build but not keen on mega expensive ongoing costs.

Is shimano 1x11 more of an option given that whilst its xtr only at launch, it fits on a normal free hub and doesn't use a proprietary manufacturing process so should trickle down to allow cheaper chain and sprocket replacement in the future?

The launch blurb states that their 1x11 isn't a trail system and they recommend 2x11 for that but isn't that just bluster seeing as lots of people manage plenty big enough hills on 1x10 already...

I was thinking xtr shifter, cassette and chain then to control costs a 3rd party crank set with thick n thin chainring. Would this be compatible with the shimano chain?

I'm looking at this: [url= http://whyte.bike/gb/models/trail/t-130-trail-suspension-27-5-650b/t-130-works/ ]T-130 Works[/url] which has 1 x 11, if I go for the next model down it has 2 x 10 but a much poorer overall spec: [url= http://whyte.bike/gb/models/trail/t-130-trail-suspension-27-5-650b/t-130-s/ ]T-130-S[/url].

if I want the better spec (wheels, fork, tyres and brakes) I have potentially higher maintenance costs. I guess it's all about choices and priorities 🙂

What works for you may not work for someone else. The OP may ride v steep stuff on a v heavy gravity sledge of a bike and a load of other reasons. I think 32x42 is a reasonable ratio and I'd expect it to be fit for purpose - I.e. being used!

Obviously, all of which is entirely irrelevant and why I never said what sized ring I use - just that if you're using the 42 a lot then I'd argue that a smaller chain ring may be a wise investment. This isn't anything to do with how I ride, what I ride, relative fitness etc, just that if you're spending a disproportionate amount of time in the lowest gear then it makes sense to run a smaller chainring. The only reason not to is bravado. Assuming equal usage I'd expect the 10 to wear out far quicker than the 42.

I'd expect that the extremes of the cassette get the least use, of course they're fit to be used, but just as I'd expect the 10 to wear out very quickly if you use it a lot, I'd expect the 42 to do the same...

There didn't seem any conclusions from this thread (shock to stw regulars I'm sure!) other than you need to get the right sized chainring to stop the biggest and smallest sprocket getting overused....so do we think

Sram 11 Spd cassettes will always be v v expensive due to manufacturing limitations or they'll find a way and costs will fall?
Shimano,s 11 spd single solution will be a good less expensive alternative or too small a range for general trail riding?

Shimano will be narrow[i]er[/i], but only you can say if it'll be too narrow.

SRAM will likely do a cheaper one eventually, but it'll weigh about the same as a small planet.

Is there a gear inch chart where I can see what these equate to compared to my current set up?

Is there a gear inch chart where I can see what these equate to compared to my current set up?

If you type "gear calculator" in to Google it is the first [url= http://sheldonbrown.com/gears/ ]hit[/url]

1 x 11 running costs

In response to the actual question this thread is about....

I have ~1400 miles/ 140 hours on XX1 and have only just replaced the first chain. This is riding through the end of winter to nowish around South Wales so not an easy life despite not riding it too much so far. For comparison, it is holding up much better than XT or XTR I have had before (slipping and frustrating after ~800 miles). No concerns about durability from me although there was another thread where others were struggling to get decent life out of the XO1 cassette despite previously being happy with the XX1 version...

Does the aluminium 42T sprocket wear out any faster than an aluminium 32T chainring? The latter is smaller and being used all the time, so I would expect it to die long before the cassette.

Conversely, an alu chainring doesn't have to deal with any shifting so wear will affect performance less... Both my alu ring and XX1 cassette seem to be wearing very well.

In theory the XO1 and XX1 cassettes should be identical but some here on STW have found the alu 42T on XO1 to cause issues after relatively little use but found the alu 42T on XX1 to be extremely hard wearing.

Basically, I would buy an XX1 rather than XO1 cassette and not get too hung up on the 42T being alu- it is plenty durable (on XX1 especially)

I got about 300 miles out of my Sram XX1 30T chainring before it started "grinding". The grinding got gradually worse and at 500 miles it's enough to make me want to change it (though funcationally it's fine). I don't know about Sram cranks but on the Hollowgram spider, you can flip the chainring over to double the life (chainline is unaffected). 1000 miles out of a chainring doesn't seem like much to me but I'll put up with it for the simplicity of 1x10 with no front mech. I really like 1x...can't imagine riding a double or triple again.

Njee's chainring size comment makes perfect sense: The SRAM cassettes are pretty tough cromoly and should last well if you change the chains regularly and use that 42 for a bailout gear only. If you're using that 42 enough to wear it down fast then your front chainring is probably too big.

OP: If you're diligent at maintenance it might be worth buying 3 or 4 chains and rotate them every 500 miles. Since chains are much cheaper than cassettes (about £30 for an XX1 chain, £200ish for the cassette) I think that will give you the best cassette life.

@jimification - Seen this suggested before but not sure if it really helps, surely just change he chain at mid-wear would be better? Might have to try it when I get the new bike, if Whyte can sort out supplies of the T-130 I'm after.

Well, in theory, since tooth wear is primarily caused by running a stretched chain (hence loading the teeth individually rather than spreading the load between many teeth) then running a succession of unstretched chains should give maximum cassette life. Of course, the teeth will still wear down (albeit at a reduced rate) and at some point, wouldn’t continue to mesh with new chains, which is why you have to go back to the first (already partially stretched) chain at some point and start the process over. From what I’ve read, 3 to 4 chains in rotation for 500 miles each is the sweet spot for this. One guy on MTBR was even flipping each chain over half way through its cycle.

I hasten to add that I’ve not tried this for myself, it’s just what I’ve read – this practice wouldn’t make sense with my current cassette (XT 11-36, £34 at CRC) but I might try it when it's time for a new drivetrain (will probably change to XX10s or XTR11s cassette then)

@jimification OK seems to make sense, as I say if Whyte ship the T-130 sometime soonish i might give it a go and report back in a few months time 🙂

Anyone would think the manufacturers wanted our drive trains to wear out?

Surely not, I'm sure they would create the everlasting chainset if they could.

Perhaps they should start making light bulbs!

As someone said if you need to constantly use the 42t ring because of the riding or your just unfit fat guy then change the front ring. Normally a 32t ring at the front is fine. Personally I won't be swapping back to nine or ten speed the simplicity and advantages of 1 x 11 are just great for trail riding.