[Closed] 1 x 11 or 1 x 12. Really?

Things like this work really well if you try them out for yourself.

Yup.

I grew up with 3x.

I'm a big fan of 1x.

Deore 11-46t 10spd cassette and a wide range rear mech… cheap way to find out for yourself.

I cannot see myself ever wanting a front derailleur again. Life is so much better with 1x

I cannot see myself ever wanting a front derailleur again. Life is so much better with 1x.
Plus it saves quite a bit of weight. 500g in my case

Do you really have a triple with a 11-40t cassette?

Work out the gear ratios and restrict your current gears to that and you can work out if it's ok without spending any money at all.

fwiw, I found 11-42 wasn't really enough but pretty happy with 10-50/51 12 speed.

but don't you find that you sacrifice both top and bottom end as a result of the 36 front?

36-10 is the same as 40-11 isn't it?

Do you really have a triple with a 11-40t cassette?

Yes. Obviously, I cannot use both extremes.

I get where you are coming from. Personally, I find that 2x with a 11-40 something cassette works well for me. 3x was only really a thing when cassettes were restricted to 32/34T

I remember when the biggest cassette I could get was 28t

Coming from 3x9 then 2x9 and straight to 1x12 i was worried i wouldnt have a crawler gear (or 2) , or the ratios would be badly spaced etc. Gone 1x12. 32t front on shimano 10-51 rear and after a few rides I would never consider going back....

Have a play with this - http://gear-calculator.com/

I went from 3x9 on a 26" to 1x10 on a 29". I reckon I "lost" three ratios. That was before the current crop of wide range cassettes, it would be more like 1.5 - 2 ratios now. On a typical ride in the Dales with 30T up front and 11-40T at the back I'd probably only use the middle eight, the bottom gear might get used once in a while and the top gear if I was on a downhill bit of tarmac.

I've one 11spd bike which is currently 30T with 11-42T but when that wears out I might go 32T and 11-50T.

Never used all the gears when I had a bike with 3x10... That was 24/32/42 with 11-36 cassette, which gave me 573% gear range.

At the time, I changed to 2x10 with 24/36 with 11-36, which gave 496% gear range. Very occasionally felt I wanted a slightly taller top gear than 36/11 (but only on a road descent), a change to a 38T ring would have sufficed.

These days I've got 1x12 on both my main MTB's, SRAM X01 Eagle AXS with a 10-50T cassette and 32T ring on my full sus, and Shimano SLX with a 10-51 cassette and 32T ring on my Hardtail. I've got gears for all occasions on both. Occasionally on road, as per with 36/11 top gear with 2x10, I could do with a 2T larger chainring for a bit more speed, but that's about 0.00001% of my riding on either of these bikes. Off road, 32/10 is plenty tall enough, or I'm pumping. That said, on the HT at least which is only about 27lb, I could happily put a 34T ring on instead of the 32 and gain a little more top end speed and still maintain a 0.66:1 bottom gear.

22/40 is absolutely ridiculous! I can't see how you need that low a gear for anything! 🤷🏻‍♂️

The big problem that 1x10 solved for me was drive chain reliability and durability. I used to always get dodgy shifting and chainsuck after ~500km with a front derailleur.

I can run 1x10 for much, much longer with total neglect and it just seems to keep on going even with the chain massively worn. Yes there's less range but I'm OK with spinning out the odd time or having to work a bit harder uphill.

If 3x10 work well for your riding and it doesn't give you any bother then crack on.

I strongly suspect that 12sp Shimano will convert you.

Personally I now realise I could have stayed 11sp, but the 12sp stuff is very very nice.

The setup suggested by Kelvin would be fine as well.

Couple of 1x11 setups, MTB: 32t 10-42 the Gravel bike: 42t 11-42.

Neither needs more range on them, I’ve recently bought a second hand road bike which is 2x10 and realised how much I despise front mechs! My tandem is 3x9, but I’m often in the granny ring on that beast!

Loved 1x11 10-42 with 30 up front but every now and then either wanted another gear for pelting downhill and another for really steep stuff. But still overall great, so much more reliable and intuitive to use.
1x12 Shimano 10-51 with 32 up front is all that and with the two things I occasionally wished for at each end, so basically perfect.

I used to always get dodgy shifting and chainsuck

Same here, especially chainsuck. Spent a future getting the first XX1 chainset to get their narrow/wide ring to use with Shimano 10 speed. Never ever had chainsuck in all the years since.

TBH, I can't see why anyone would run 2x or even 3x. I remember all the faff of trying to set up a front mech and the ridiculous overlap of 27 gears. Back in 2006, I went 2x up front which simplified matters a great deal, now 1x drivetrains have more than enough range now that you can get them with larger cassettes than 10-40. I don't miss the front mech, TBH they're a pain in the arse to set up.

Longevity seems to be pretty good, I've an M8000 XT drivetrain with a Sunrace 11-46 cassette that has clocked up three years' usage on one of my bikes. I couldn't do that with old school nine speed.

I ran 3x7,8,9 and 3x10 which I was perfectly happy with. Then bought a bike with 1x11 which I’m also happy with. I imagine my next bike at some point will have 1x12.

Meh, pros and cons, not worth getting over excited about as they all work and non are significantly better than the other.

Like all things, it's a compromise.

If I were bike packing round the world id want a 3x whatever.

On my 1x 12 I've biased the gears to help on the ups as I'm a biffer and not that fit. Though improving...

So... I don't mind spinning out on the roads I ride to get to my local, natural trails. At those speeds downhill off road I'll be out of the saddle and pedalling is secondary to not falling off anyway!Lol

So for me the positives outweigh the only negative,a reduction in range.

My ebike is 1x10, it never really feels like it needs more tbh.
However my surly karate monkey (which i use fully loaded for touring)
Always needs the full range of 2x10.
With that said, i reckon 1x12 could work for me.

I'd forgotten about chainsuck. Worth it just for that.

I’ve always hated setting up front mechs and when full of mud and grit they don’t work anyway.

The other benefit of single ring is the rear wheel no longer fills up with mud and now is so easy to clean.

Front mechs are officially dead. Be gone to the pits of hell .

I do however still have the granny ring mounted and if I needed to could shift it by hand.
Never used it.

It’s fine, really!

I’m 10-50 eagle with a 34 front ring and I can get up anything and spin out only on steep road descents where it doesn’t matter.

I really do not miss the rattly, chainsucky mess that was gears from the early 2000s

I do miss properly light cassettes, IMO it’s worth scouting around/spending a bit more for a light cassette. It’s unsprung weigh out there and the difference between cheep and expensive is a lot!

I went the 1x route after doing a usual route I ride while staying in the middle ring. It was 45mins to the top of a local fell, with a bit of evrything, tarmac, rooty climbs, rocky bits some downy bits. It was no slower than normal and Didn't feel any worse for it.

Still on a 1 x 10 though on the main bike, with a Sunrace 12-46 cassette. Looking at that nice and cheap Advent X setup from Microshift for my other bike that still has a 3x set-up.

1x12 gives you a 500% range comparable to a 3x9 back in the day. I must admit my soul with 2x10 is frustrating, I like the ratio end points but it seems for undulating riding I’m always wanting something in between the big and little ring. Will upgrade to XT 12 speed when I can

 One minute I might be flying along a piece of tarmac on my way to a trail or climbing up a 25% gradient bit of off road track and I find I use the 22/40 as much as the 40/11

You'll fly a little slower on the tarmac fo'shure, but tbh you can get up the same gradient in 32/50 that you can in the 22/40. You might not think you'd be able to, but you will.

Physics says that you can't .

I love the simplicity of 1x11 but find the 420% range a touch restrictive.

Currently I have XX1 10-42 cassette + XTR mech and shifter. Am I right in saying there isn't a wider range 11 spd cassette that will work with my 11 spd XTR mech/shifter, and my only option is to go 12 speed?

Having used both SRAM & Shimano 11 & 12sp drivetrains, Shimano 12sp is definitely the smoothest and quietest and also the slickest to use.

For MTB I def don’t need more than a 12sp 1x setup. The extra 5t on the cassette between 11sp and 12sp is noticeable and handy for the hills!

So I am curious that with less gears does a single setup work

Well there is the root of your difficulty to visualise. The point is with a 1x set up you don’t have fewer gears and ultimately the main thing that matters is what range you have.

With a 3x set up you have so many duplicate gears that the number of different gears you actually have is probably around 11 or 12 and your overall range is very similar. So for roughly the same range and number of gears with a 1x you’re dropping the weight and complexity and other downsides of the 3x.

Sure you won’t be able to map 100% the gearing and you might need to decide on which end you want to make the compromises by chainring size choice - the top end or bottom end. But once you’ve done that 99% of the time you’ll have all the gears you need and the gains far outweigh the loss of the 1%.

Most of the household is running 1x11 or 1x10 on MTBs.

I like how simple and light it is. We never drop chains. It lasts well.

That said, it is not quite as fast sometimes on the road (I can deal with that). More of an issue is that on big climbs I'm often wanting another few teeth lower...

Mrs_oab is about to go 'back' to 2x - she wanted the lower gears again for climbs. I'm tempted to join her...

I'm using 2x on our tourer/gravel bikes. I've added a bigger cassette up to limit of the mech. It's spot on, as the extra variation of gears gets speed on road and climbing ability.

I've got very recent relevant experience here having gone from a Lapierre Zesty 3x10 to A LLS Whyte 629 with 1x12 just last week. I was thinking it might be a retrograde step too, but in reality there was no getting accustomed to it or difference really.

Like the 10 speed, there's a small gap in the middle of the range where you think you could do with an inbetween ratio, but that's common for me when I hit a sweet spot of speed and cadence on the flat.

The LLS geometry doesn't feel odd either, which I'm well chuffed with.

If you genuinely have stuff you can't ride without 22/40, then you won't find that gear on a 1x setting, although a 28t chainring gets you close.

A 10-51 Shimano setup would be closest, with either a 28t or 30t, depending on which end of the range is the most important.

This site is great for visualising your setup.

https://ritzelrechner.de/

The other benefit of single ring is the rear wheel no longer fills up with mud and now is so easy to clean.

Curious about this. Are you saying a larger cassette clogs less?

At least some folk have been honest enough to admit they like 1x because they can't set up a front mech. Whenever I suggest that as a reason, everyone goes on the defensive.

@timmys - you can get a Sunrace 11-50T 11spd cassette. From CRC reviews it seems that it works with SLX and XT medium cage mechs but not seen anything about XTR.

There are 11-46T cassettes, both Shimano (M8000) and Sunrace do them.

I've gone from 1x10 11-36 to 12s 10-50.

TBH after years of singlespeeds I dont really appreciate it 🤣

I did wonder if I'd get on with a really small chainring (like a 24t) and 10s cassette. Same spinny low gear, and still a higher top gear than a normal 52" singlespeed.

My main issue with 12s is the weight right over the rear axle, again singlespeed makes you appreciate how much effect weight there has.

I can set front mechs up good enough, I just prefer not to.

Depends on your priorities IMO.

If range is important 1x12 is just the ticket. If you want to closely match your ratios and cadence a la roadie style, go for 2x.

1x11 doesn't have the range or the gear steps to match your cadence as well. No real difference from 1x10. Perfectly fine to use, but offers none of the advantages.

My priority is range, but I'm exclusively a trail hacker and am neither a warp speed flow rider or a tarmac user, I do like a rooty technical climb, so I bias my 1x12 downwards by using a 28t chain ring on the HT and a 30t on the FS.

As TINAS says, these big old 12 SPD cassettes and mechs have some serious unsprung mass to them though. Less of an issue on the HT, more so on the FS.

The unsprung mass isn't as much as you think if you have something like SRAM with their lighter XD drive, or Shimano's new micro spline, and the more expensive machine from solid cassettes. Again, there is not any single domineering factor...its a net result of everything and not everything is done for ultimate performance...the convenience of 1x is something you will benefit from far more than anything you might notice from a slight increase in unsprung weight. Nobody worries about unsprung weight when going to a larger tyre...it is generally accepted the benefit the tyre brings, which you will notice, outweighs the increase in unsprung weight, which you don't really notice. We're not talking KG's here...just a handful of grams.

Also I find cassette wear is far better on 1x...usually you're driving a larger sprocket for a given ratio meaning more teeth engaged and lower stress on the cassette. Also I've never broken a chain since going 1x...chain wear is alot better...those chainring shifts take their toll on chain wear and abuse especially when clogged with grinding paste like mud.

So do people find the gaps between gears too wide with the 10/51? I use my 29er for bikepacking as well so it needs to work for that.

Other question I have is regarding chain line and how smooth it feels when on the 10 or 51 sprocket?

Can't comment on the really wide ratio cassettes but for the 40/42 models the gaps are smaller than when on the big ring in a 2x setup and no-one complains about those. Again - http://gear-calculator.com/

Chainline - when new there is some noise at either end, I use BB spacers to alter the chainline to make the side I'm most likely to use quieter. Any noise is amplified by any grit/dirt in the drivetrain.

Shimano 12sp ratios are fine IMO.

What are the specific requirements you have of a cassette for bikepacking then?

I'm not the strongest rider. FTP 240 watts and I weigh 78kg so I need a very low gear for climbing. Was in the Alps bikepacking last year and found the mountain climbs fully loaded tough going with a 11/36 and 22 front, hence the change to a 40 rear.

Sorry?!!! You weigh 78kg with a 240W FTP? I'm 86kg with 266W FTP, so very similar W/kg, and have no problem with big climbs with 30F/40R.

Either "fully loaded" means taking a shitload of stuff you don't need or you need to apply rule #5 !!!!

I can set front mechs up good enough, I just prefer not to

I was careful not to say it was the same reasons for everyone 😉

A couple of observations (I have bikes with 2x, 1x and SS).

The new side-swing front mechs are amazing. Much lighter action. Lack of gubbins behind the seat tube better for mud clearance.

I like being able to drop the equivalent of 3 cogs, usually when I'm tired/fatiqued/lazy.

The larger cogs on Shimano cassettes are soft and I prefer to avoid them in order to extend cassette life. They are also a big step so I save them for "those times".

I do run 2x on my main bikepacker but I'd changed a chain before a trip last year and was getting chain suck. This only happened in the granny so I did the three days in the big ring. TBH it wasn't as  bad as I thought it would be 😅

So I original started out on 3x9, then 2x10 which was swiped out to 1x10 before finally going to 1x11.

A couple of things I would say:
1) 1x set up is a lot easier to work out what gear you should be in (girlfriend finds it a lot easier to know what gear she should be in).
2) oval chainrings do help to smooth out you pedalling and I find makes your knees hurt less at the end of a ride. You can go up a chain ring size over a round ring as well and it’s not as noticeable.
3) if you run sram cranks run a direct mount chain ring helps to drop some more weight.
4) I have no plans of going 12 speed due to the extra weight especially as it’s sprung weight. If you do go 12 be prepared to spend top dollar on the cassette. The other thing is I would go up a ring size over what you would run on a 11 speed has it will help with cadence in the 50t (less spinning). Otherwise you are more likely to become weaker (try riding in a granny gear the whole ride and that will show what I mean).
5) you end up having to attack the climbs more to get up them rather than spin up (this is where playing with chain ring size to suit your fitness and riding terrain is needed).

Gravel bikes were invented for the type of riding that requires 2 front rings.

Whenever I suggest that as a reason, everyone goes on the defensive.

This is the curse of success as a big hitter.

You've finally made it.

I had 30/11-46 on my XC bike, now 11-42.

The jump between 37 and 46 at the bottom was a little irritating, but I only changed to 11-42 because I had it spare and I wanted the 11-46 for another bike. TBH I don't miss the larger sprocket really but I prefer the smaller gap at the top. The Salsa which is my ground covering bike now has 32/11-46.

The gap between 37 and 46 is a bit annoying, and 30/11 isn't that tall. However there's only one place on my local rides where I spin out, on a road downhill. And that lasts about 20 seconds so I just put up with it. I never use even 30/11 on road. If I were racing maybe I'd worry about it on a particular course if it had fast fire road on it. But they rarely do. The 1x on the Salsa is a little less than ideal on road stuff because of the low top gear and the gaps.

BUT despite these annoyances it's still better for me than 3x. Chainsuck, mud gathering, also more trouser clearance and lack of a dirty leg mark, lighter AND cheaper (which is pretty rare!) and because I was using m970 the m8000 works far better. And oddly is much smoother. And not having to front shift is nice. Also, dropper levers that replace the front shifter are much better than those that go alongside.

So do people find the gaps between gears too wide with the 10/51? I use my 29er for bikepacking as well so it needs to work for that.

This is the only question people need to be asking themselves. You buy the kit to suit your riding. There are sacrifices with gear gaps with 1x...but that wont bother you if you ride varied terrain where your cadence is all over the place anyway and you want to be jumping several gears at a time alot. For more steady riding then you may want a bit closer ratio then, unless its fairly flat, a 2x set up might be more appropriate, but even with 1x and cassettes with non-linear gear gaps you can optimise your 'cadence window' to suit most of your riding with chainring choice. But never a 3x. As soon as we moved to 10spd cassettes 3x became obscolete.

I would have thought for bike packing 1x would be better as you don't have a front mech getting in the way of frame bags and cable routing fouling with frame bag straps.

And as for chainline...well since when does chainlink actually matter at all? Don't understand the obsession with chainline. it really is not an issue as far as I'm concerned. You might be wasting half a watt in theory...as if you're going to notice.

I would have thought for bike packing 1x would be better as you don’t have a front mech getting in the way of frame bags and cable routing fouling with frame bag straps.

That's not been a problem for me.

Gravel bikes were invented for the type of riding that requires 2 front rings.

There's an element of truth in this. Some of my bikepacking routes will have long tarmac sections linking up off-road bits.

It has also to be remembered that some folk just prefer a slower pedalling cadence and find 30/11 just too spinny if trying to maintain a decent pace.

Don’t understand the obsession with chainline. it really is not an issue as far as I’m concerned.

Amen to that.

I've never wanted to have anything other than 1x since I switched. I can't think of any negatives!

At least some folk have been honest enough to admit they like 1x because they can’t set up a front mech. Whenever I suggest that as a reason, everyone goes on the defensive.

I don't think people get defensive, they're just surprised people find it hard to set up a relatively easy component.

You might be wasting half a watt in theory…as if you’re going to notice.

I don't have a link (ho ho) but I clearly remember reading an article where it measured the efficiency of a chain at different chainlines, and it went from something like 98% in a straight line to IIRC 92% off-line. That's 6% which if you are churning up a climb at 300W would be 18W which is quite a bit, and takes a good bit of focused training to gain.

Of course a varied chain line is inevitable unless you SS or use hub gears which come with their own inefficiencies, but I don't think it's insignificant.

Just did a quick search and here is the results of a modern test of 1x vs 2x on a road bike in the lab i.e. clean.

Looks like you lose about 3W in bottom gear and 8W in top. Link here.

I don’t have a link (ho ho) but I clearly remember reading an article where it measured the efficiency of a chain at different chainlines, and it went from something like 98% in a straight line to IIRC 92% off-line. That’s 6% which if you are churning up a climb at 300W would be 18W which is quite a bit, and takes a good bit of focused training to gain.

Of course a varied chain line is inevitable unless you SS or use hub gears which come with their own inefficiencies, but I don’t think it’s insignificant.

I'll pull a figure completely out of thin air, and stand by it.

95% of folk on here won't give a flying **** about any of that! 😂

61 posts in and can’t believe no one has pointed out that it just looks better too 😁

22/40 is absolutely ridiculous! I can’t see how you need that low a gear for anything! 🤷🏻‍♂️

My fat bike is 1x but it still has the 22t granny ring on the front (no mech). If I kick the chain down I get 22/42 which is really ridiculous. I’ve not needed it yet, not sure I can spin quick enough to stay upright 🤣

you know it isn't compulsory to go 1x?

Historically I've had various '1x' bikes going all the way back to a 1x7 setup for a while in the 90's.

The reasoning for me has always been simplicity (fewer components to fail), justified by having just about sufficient gearing for a bike's intended use.
Of course during that time there have been occasions where multiple rings were really necessary on a bike too so the choice of single/multi ring drive-train should really come down to the application.

These days of course we're perhaps approaching a minor tipping point, over the course of about ~30 years both the sprocket count and feasible tooth count for a commercially available cassette have just about doubled, broadening the viable applications of 1x. Cassette have a lot more range if you want it, Which means 1x is appropriate for more bikes/riders.

The current debate (for me at least) isn't really over 1x on a MTB, it's more about whether or not the range/steps are quite there yet to make it viable on a road bike, I think it can just about suit Gravel depending on how you define that (slightly more "relaxed" on/off road touring and local tow path trundling?) but for a racier and/or sportive type road bike I think 1x is still maybe a bit too marginal. The simplicity doesn't quite outweigh the Benefits of finer gearing increments in two (or even three) ranges.

Much as I like 1x gearing, which I’ve had on my MTBs for the best part of ten years, I think I’d rather have 2x on a touring bike.

Consecutive long days with heavy loads (when you’re trying to have a nice time seeing the world rather than trying to make your legs hurt) suggests a big gear range with easy twiddly low gears and relaxed big cruising gears is wise.

Indeed chief, it's more about the tool suiting the application.