[Closed] 1 x 11 - not convinced

So it isn't so much about how steep the climbs are but about how long your rides are.

[i]If[/i] there's a downside to 1x9 or 10, then this is it. It's much better for hammering around stuff fast for an hour or two IMO. Partly that's down to fitness, but it's also down to the fact that it requires you to pedal a bit harder to get up stuff. Sometimes that's an advantage because you'll carry more momentum. On the whole I'd say I climb quicker with 1x10, and get up all the same climbs, but the pace might tire me out a bit sooner. SRAM 1x11 (and to a lesser extent, Shimano 1x11 and Ghetto 1x10 with range expanders) goes a long way to correct that, though. Depending on what front sprocket you choose, you still have a very usable range.

As for it being a problem in the Lakes, well that's a load of balls IME. I guess it depends where you ride, but for me the Lakes is about the high Fells and riding some big exposed stuff. To that end most of my recent Lakes rides have involved a lot of walking where I might as well have been single speed. I'm sure 1x is good for trail centres, but I wouldn't know 😉

I am with the OP. 1 x 10/11 is fashion led. ok for trail center stuff that the blokes who like it ride. places like the [s]lakes[/s] Highlands where proper mtb riders frequent, it is [s]nigh on useless.[/s] absolutely fine and quite popular
good old 3 x 9 was and still is [s]far better.[/s] fine
and don't quote the weight saving crap.....most men can afford to lose a stone or 2. adding the weight of a front mech/shifter/ring mean nil. [b]Just 2 :)[/b]

 

Anyone else on here long for the heady old days of this forum when the standard answers to any questions were "32:16" or "Conti Vert Pro's"??? 😕

Got 1x11 on the new ride seems to cope with N.Wales and the Alps quite well. Don't talk. Get your cadence. Enjoy the climb.

Never liked front mechs off road, they are big mud magnets and haven't had a usable granny gear on a bike since 1999. The clutch mech and narrow wide ring are great inventions as far as I'm concerned. Slack and low geometry however..

A "not proper" mountain biker and his 1x11 drivetrain recently:

[img] [/img]

30 into 11 is a bit too low for most as a top gear.

For some, maybe, but for most? At 120 rpm you'd be doing 25mph and I suspect if you're doing that speed your either on the road or easy double track. If you're still wanting to pedal at 25mph and not riding something easy then kudos, but you're not most people.

Plus the cost is crazy and those posh cassettes don't last two minutes, or so I hear. So what's the deal?

I was on the verge of heading off to do something more productive but i thought i would reply tho this one.

Posh cassette 😛 i will admit to spending a fair whack on a complete X01 drivetrain with no real expectations on how it would perform. I had the money to burn after a refund from a set of carbon hoops that kept committing suicide on top of very high mountains.

So 18 months down the line this is where i am at, i am still on the same cassette. I am on the 3rd chain and the second front chainring which i dropped down for hitting the mountains this summer 🙂 yea i know.

In that time i have ridden shed loads. 2 week long holidays. 2 week long multi stage events with trans in the title. and lots and lots of normal riding. I dont have the exact figure but its lots 🙂

On that basis alone i don't think it is fair to say they last 2 minutes. If you take care of the drivetrain it will last. It really is not rocket science. And change the chain out before it really trashes the cassette.

Oh and before i forget as i said i was very open to accepting the disadvantages and advantages of the system, for the riding i do its pretty much a perfect solution. Simplicity it where its at. If you ride mountainous terrain all the time i think a 2 x 10 may benefit you more but for me i see no real disadvantages to 1 x 11

I cannot achieve anything like 120 RPM, and haven't often witnessed anyone doing that!!(I might add I use flats so maybe I'm not pedal efficient!) . I rarely pedal downhill that much and don't do competitive downhill. Im just a fun rider and get up to 17-20mph max on what I enjoy. I prefer a "reasonable sized " 32+ up front so I can still kick on the pedal to help lift the front for manuals and getting over rocks and going off drops. I don't often do that in the 11t rear sprocket and would be in the middle of the block. Shimano fitted 32t middle rings for years. I guess as lots of people(most?) like that. Therein is the answer.

For some, maybe, but for most? At 120 rpm you'd be doing 25mph and I suspect if you're doing that speed your either on the road or easy double track. If you're still wanting to pedal at 25mph and not riding something easy then kudos, but you're not most people.

Exactly. I have a 32 on 26"FS and a 30 on the 29"FS, and the only time I ever run out of gears is on the long boring road sections between some of my local trails, which doesn't bother me tbh.

Im very happy with 32 too...just wouldn't want a 30. Anyway we can all do as we please. One day i'll be moving to 11 or whatever speed they offer. My first "decent" MTB was a rubbish by today's standards non indexed 6 speed and each time they have increased block sizes things have got better as they have also improved shifting beyond recognition.

At 120 rpm you'd be doing 25mph and I suspect if you're doing that speed your either on the road or easy double track.

That's why I still have 3x9 on the Salsa - it does road.

haven't had a usable granny gear on a bike since 1999

Why on earth not?

Does anyone race XC on 1x11? I'm speccing up a group set for a XC race bike and am currently in a "land of confusion"
As to which way to go.
I like the faff free front mech and bars simplicity of it all but worried I'll be out of gears on a fast flat course or a mass sprint start.

Any XC racers running 1x11 - or not, got any input?

ok for trail center stuff that the blokes who like it ride. places like the lakes where proper mtb riders frequent, it is nigh on useless.

Well, it worked well enough for me doing some fairly long, high-altitude steep alpine climbing a few weeks ago and I am overweight and unfit at the moment.

good old 3 x 9 was and still is far better

Rode 3x9 for years,however, it was not as good as 3x8 or 3x10 (or 2x10) - both of which seemed to set up better, wear more well and were 'crisper'.

I had 2x9 in 2001 when such things were unheard of - I had an early Middleburn XC duo. I rather liked the fact I didn't have to shift the front anything like as often, so I imagine 1x10 would be even better. On an XC course with much more flat out hammering I think it'd be great not having to pause for front shifting and risk chainsuck/dropping the chain.

I have a pile of 2x11 bits waiting for the matching cranks and a frame to fit them on. For me, hilly bikepacking benefits from a decent low and top end and 1x just doesn't provide enough range.

For those wondering about the importance of chain line and suspension..i think my dw turner suspension feels different in different front rings..which i think its how its meant to be

http://dw-link.blogspot.co.uk/2008/10/single-chainrings-and-detrimental.html

What I don't get is the narrow-wide chainrings as the bash guard is then lost. Even just hopping the bike over a typical horse step gate thing risks trashing the ring and chain, let alone proper riding?

Blackspire bruiser, protects the chain and front ring.

ok for trail center stuff that the blokes who like it ride. places like the lakes where proper mtb riders frequent, it is nigh on useless.

Pish, complete and utter pish. Whoever wrote that need's to have a long hard look at themselves. Stop generalising. There is no getting away from the fact that we all like different types of kit and not everything is one size fits all. As i stated before my thinking is that if you ride in the mountains nearly all the time then 2 x 10 with a clutch mech is the ultimate solution, but 1 x 11 is very very close. And thats not just from my experience but from a lot of very capable riders i have met on my travels.

All this belly button examination regarding one set of gears vs another slightly smaller range of gears 😆

How do folk on singlespeeds manage to ride? How do they manage to win 560 mile highland mountain bike races? With one gear!

Pick what makes sense to you, and enjoy. Note: it is likely that someone else will pick something different, and also enjoy!

ok for trail center stuff that the blokes who like it ride. places like the lakes where proper mtb riders frequent, it is nigh on useless.

Pish, complete and utter pish. Whoever wrote that need's to have a long hard look at themselves. Stop generalising. There is no getting away from the fact that we all like different types of kit and not everything is one size fits all.

I think (hope) that Ton was trolling for amusement there. I don't think it worked very well TBH and is likely throwing the thread, which will now no doubt go on for another 10 pages with people giving death threats over whether 32 tooth chainrings are better than 34s 😉

@Molgrips I think you answered your own question. No chain suck, also tyre/mech/mud clearance.

Haha, well i bit good and proper 🙂

1 x 1. That's a proper bike 🙂

Choice was made for me, apparently I have inherited dodgy knees which seem to like 2x more than 1x solutions. It is not the extremes at 30x36 but using granny for longer climbs and especially after 2 hours granny really makes a difference in post-ride pain.

I'd still enjoy continuity of 1x solution but not riding only every other week and spending others in armchair with ice packs on my knees. 🙁

I think it'd be great not having to pause for front shifting and risk chainsuck/dropping the chain.

How do they manage to win 560 mile highland mountain bike races? With one gear!

We will never know how fast he would've been with gears.....

We will never know how fast he would've been with gears.....

Right, but it doesn't matter how much faster he would or wouldn't have been with gears. The fact is, he put a stonking good time in and won, with only one gear. That's on a course that includes some of the hardest MTB riding in the UK.

just go in from fitting a 28 tooth front and 42 tooth expander to my enduro.
if you cant beat em, join em eh........ 😀

Mind, just trail centers from now on ton!

SPLITTER!

28x42 - you'll topple over going that slow 😉

cant wait to shred dalby.... 😆

Here's what I've used so far...
3x8
1x8
3x9
2x9
1x9
2x10
1x10
1x10 with expander
and finally 1x11

I'm sticking with 1x11, 11-42 34 on 29er. There's plenty of gear range for all day rides, the steepest of climbs, fast trails\road and once descents get really fast you may as well get low\aero.

I've found some people will never have enough gears, despite someone with less gears (or even one gear) riding the same stuff with no problems and faster.

I've been on 1x8 since I crashed and smashed my front shifter 3 years ago.
36t x 11-32 was fine on the Moray coast but since moving to Aberdeenshire where the typical climb had hundreds of meters as opposed to tens of metres of ascent I've dropped my gearing to 30t x 12-36 which is low enough until it's time to get off and walk.

When someone invents a 9 tooth cog,I will be in business.

Have had 2 x 10 on my past two bikes and am a pretty decent climber. Have just bought a new bike with XX1 and a 32t chainring. The big difference for me is the very lowest gear; I can't remember the exact ratio but my new lowest gear is equivalent to my second lowest on my 2 x 10. I did the Scott Marathon recently and there was stuff that I would normally get up that I just couldn't manage. Perhaps a lot of that was very tired legs but it came as a surprise. I am getting used to it though.

When I returned to MTBing I read a really good comment about pedalling, that you want your legs to be like a well tuned small-block V8, able to turn fast and powerful AND slow and strong, rather than like a high revving F1 engine or grunting truck diesel.

I'm far from an XC racer but that attitude has stuck with me, so I can stomp a relatively big gear up a steep climb and spin a relatively small one to quite a speed downhill. I suspect that's why I'm happy with 1x10 and I suspect riders who are sceptical of going 1x are those who prefer to pedal a narrower cadence range (though SRAM 1x11 is much wider range than stock 1x10).

I'll try doing some cadence counting on my next ride, I'm curious to know my working range...

When someone invents a 9 tooth cog,I will be in business.

Shimano already did, look up their 'capreo' groupset... And of course then there's the hope cassette that never actually made it to market...

"New ideas" for cycling kit seem to take about eight years to a decade or so to turn into 'mainstream products'...

Right, but it doesn't matter how much faster he would or wouldn't have been with gears

Well it does if you are suggesting that one gear is faster.. 🙂

Right, but it doesn't matter how much faster he would or wouldn't have been with gears

Well it does if you are suggesting that one gear is faster..

I wasn't suggesting that. What I am saying is someone was able to not only complete, but win, that race, over hard mountain terrain, over multiple days, with just one gear. Therefore, the assertion that you need multiple gears to do 'proper mountain biking' is demonstrably false. And by extension, that a slightly limited set of gears ala 1x[i]n[/i] should not be any handicap to a lot of MTB riding for a fair percentage of people.

@ cubic boy - that seems to confirm my thinking that I'd need a 30. I'm reasonably fit but heavy (15 stone) so do use a lowish gear - also gives something in reserve to flail up short steep bits

Therefore, the assertion that you need multiple gears to do 'proper mountain biking' is demonstrably false.

No-one thinks *everyone* needs a certain gear range, that's daft so save your fingers.

However, any given individual might *need* low gears. Just because some hardcore bikepacker can do it on a singlespeed doesn't mean we all can! These people are hardly your average weekend warrior.

what one person needs to win a race,
what I need to ride the range of terrain I ride,
and what other people claim is all you need,
and what people tell me I need (when they don't even know what I ride)...

are 4 entirely different things.

i have 21 single speeds presently, with 2 clever mechanical devices for selecting which of those 21 speeds to use and when, even if some are effectively duplicated.

edit: heck, even 1x1 32:16 is more than you need, what with a rider almost on the podium at the last DH worlds with no chain, and then Gwin winning a world cup round with no chain.

make it simple, bin the cassette, both mechs, shifters and have an even less cluttered bar (not that 840mm bars would be what I call "cluttered" or full), and ride a dandy horse! no mech to get twisted round cassette, no mech to spack spokes, not rear hanger to snap, no KMC vs Sram chain fanboi-ism... and races are winnable!

I have to admit to finding no discernible advantages for me in a 1x set up. I love climbing steep and loose climbs where I am on the limit of traction. I currently run a 22 36 on my mountain bike and would happily drop it to a twenty. Riding Helvellyn a few days ago, it was interesting to see my mates pushing while I was riding. For me, having low gears that I can winch up climbs is part of the fun. If you prefer 1x, good on you but it would reduce my enjoyment so there is no incentive for me to change. 😀

No-one thinks *everyone* needs a certain gear range, that's daft so save your fingers.

That's how the thread started though. One person was dismissing 1x11 as fashion because he didn't get the point. The point is that different gearing works for different people and different applications.

I am a big fan of 1x gearing on my main mountain bike which I use in the hills (even the lake district, shock horror). I find it the best solution for that. It goes more than fast enough on that terrain and I can climb with it.

However, I also have a mountain bike with a triple on the front as I use it on the road and it also pulls a trailer with my kid in.

No-one thinks *everyone* needs a certain gear range, that's daft so save your fingers.

Have you read the last 4 pages 😆

When climbing some stuff I've ended up in my bottom gear wishing for more to come (22-32 on one bike and 22-34 on the others). I'll put the biggest sprockets I can on whenever I replace the cassettes.

I like to ride up what I can, and whilst I'm sure some pro could ride stuff on a singlespeed that I can't get up on my current bikes I have a slightly lower bottom end than you can get with a 1x11 and would appreciate an even lower bottom end.

And anyone who thinks a 42T dinner plate sprocket looks nicer than having a double up front needs their eyes testing.

That said there are bikes I'd consider that can't accomodate front mechs, and I'm sure I'd cope with 1x10 or 11, although I have already looked at Hammershmidt cranks. And much as Sanny puts his climbing down to having the lowest of low gears, I remember him munching up some ridiculous inclines when everyone else was walking on a day out with an unusable granny...

The point is that different gearing works for different people and different applications

That is a better way of putting it.

Except singlespeeding - that's just silly.

And anyone who thinks a 42T dinner plate sprocket looks nicer than having a double up front needs their eyes testing.

It doesn't, but it works better - you can save weight, cost and front shifting. I still have 3x on everything, mind, but I can see the advantage of 1x. Not 2x so much though.

Having said that - I could go 2x on my race bike if I could adjust the chain lines and perhaps increase the size of the middle - to reduce front shifts in the madness of an XC race. Also the Patriot might benefit from a bash ring.

I've actually gone from 2x10 to 3x10 on the road bike - initially to fit super low gears for base training in a hilly area, but now I've got 11-25 on the back and kept the triple because I like the closer ratios than a typical compact setup.