[Closed] “In ten years, there will no more MTB’s without electric motors.”

Where, exactly, are you drawing the line?

I acknowledged the difficulty of drawing a line by writing: "In saying this I realise that I regularly use many inventions that make my biking etc easier."

Personally, I eschew many of the developments you mention much of the time but realise others do not feel the same.

Ultimately I'm drawing a personal line at anything that drives the bike. As I said before, I think it's a good thing that biking is hard. For me it's part of the character of the sport and it also reduces pressure on the trails.

Where, exactly, are you drawing the line?

Solely human powered would seem a logical line to be drawn.

As soon as you get into the realms of pedal-assist, e-bikes etc they are no longer solely human powered....its that stumbling block that is massive for me.

I don't doubt they're good fun and if it gets couch potatoes out on the trail and can help them transition to normal bikes eventually then that'd be grand.....but to have a load of industry apologists simply state "it's gonna happen" is depressingly symptomatic of a society that craves instant gratification.

I enjoy a good hard climb on the bike (not at the time!) but the satisfaction at the top is awesome and I know the knock on effects for my strength and fitness will benefit me on other rides....I think e-bikes have the potential to take that away and lead to a group of riders who never really see any health/fitness/weight loss benefits from cycling.

Sad really, like when you see a fatty using a mobility scooter in the supermarket when they should be doing all they get to walk around more....modern life, path of least resistance and all that unfortunately.

So? No reason not to make them faster which will be safer in the UK with our shitty cycling provision.

I rode a bike earlier this year with an Italian electric hub ( http://www.zehus.it/) and I thought it was great. Never thought I'd hear myself say that. I think it had loads of modes but when I rode it, the motor just kicked and and gave you a wee help. Like riding with a tailwind.

Don't think I'd ever ride something like that offroad but could really see how it could get people into riding that are put off by distance or hills. I have a 20 mile each way commute and there are definitely days where I really can't be arsed and would happily pull an e-bike out for the ride.

All MTBs within 10 years though? Not a chance.

Oh, and that hub also had regenerative braking.

Here's a hypothetical for you Scotroutes 😉

There are lots of folks out there that think we shouldn't be riding on the Cairngorm Plateau (BTW I was up running and climbing some easy routes today, lovely it was).

One of the arguments I've used is that it's pretty difficult to get up there and so numbers will always be small and the impact low. How might e-bikes impact on that?

[quote=monkeyfudger ]So? No reason not to make them faster which will be safer in the UK with our shitty cycling provision.
Quite apart from trying to work out what sort of gearing would be required to ensure that the rider was still pedalling at 25mph, and then auto-sensing where the vehicle was so that it was still restricted to slower speeds off-road, you'd really need some sort of motorised cycle that was a bit more powerful, would require a bigger battery/fuel supply, uprated suspension (for the added weight/momentum) and would be powerful enough that some sort of rider training and licensing would be required. We already have those, they are called motorcycles.

They are a lot different to a motorbike. For one its illegal to take a motorbike onto bridleways, footpaths and trail Centre trails.

Plus around anywhere I ride regularly it doesn't take long until you come to a gate that you have to lift the bike over.

It's easy to get unrestricted e-bikes in the uk, or at least it was. I've had them up to 30mph+ in city traffic and it's kind of scary. I've also had restricted ones to well over 20mph along the same stretch of road as any e-bikes need to be thoroughly *cough* tested by bike shop staff.

I consider myself an average to good mtb'er. And I'd reckon that pretty much any average MTB'er is vastly more talented at bike handling than the casual cyclist or commuter. At 20mph on city/commuter specific bikes with skinny tyres, crappy brakes, odd weight bias, curious handling etc etc they start to become a bit of a handful.

[quote=Spin ]Here's a hypothetical for you Scotroutes
There are lots of folks out there that think we shouldn't be riding on the Cairngorm Plateau (BTW I was up running and climbing some easy routes today, lovely it was).
One of the arguments I've used is that it's pretty difficult to get up there and so numbers will always be small and the impact low. How might e-bikes impact on that?
Good one.

At the current power level of these things I'm not forseeing anyone getting up to the plateau much easier. As per my previous post, when you start increasing power and (therefore) needing a bigger power supply and getting into more weight, it [i]then[/i] becomes a motorcycle and therefore subject to the current restrictions.

Twas a good day though...
[img] https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/U3hzFOWt_pdaYe6B9S-zzi673YPsPwBMBh-3EbPTuOqq=w1920-h657-no [/img]
[img] https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/aEg1mygnhbLy_gpIRDbTsBvNRFOzc70cYbLWwTlPwSPB=w1287-h965-no [/img]

People have been using non-human powered transport on bridleways for centuries without issue. Otherwise known as horses. Personally I would rather see E-bikes on the bridleways than horses, but that is just me 🙂

Are 1HP e-bikes OK then? 😆

Twas a good day though...

Indeed:

[img][url= https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5678/20549977835_3e4a867e20_k.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5678/20549977835_3e4a867e20_k.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/xiW1sF ]P1000795[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/55682113@N08/ ]happycrenker[/url], on Flickr[/img]

[img][url= https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5726/20541063742_9b4faa5d29_k.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5726/20541063742_9b4faa5d29_k.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/xi9jBq ]P1000802[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/55682113@N08/ ]happycrenker[/url], on Flickr[/img]

Crapping out tomorrow though I think.

Best viewpoint in the Gorms I reckon

You mean Loch A'an?

I never tire of it.

1HP that's about 800 Watts that would be a very powerful Ebike if it could output 800 watts consistently and all the time

That just proves that the existing equine cross country vehicle is too powerful and they should all be downgraded to one of these.

[img] [/img]

there is a motorised equivalent of the ebike already

it's called a derny

The OpenMTB people need to get moving as when we are all on ebikes we'll have no chance of changing access law, the other user groups will see to that

An E bike would come in handy for Snowdon imagine going up the Llanberis at 15mph and getting to the top in about 15 minutes

I don't want one now.

in 20 years when my knees are shot, then yes.

What I think is shit is the 15mph speed "limit" on the road, what a shitty dangerous speed that is. It's waaaaay too fast for shared use paths bit not fast enough to mix with traffic, actually makes it more dangerous, needs to be 20mph at least, maybe 25mph

but to have a load of industry apologists simply state "it's gonna happen" is depressingly symptomatic of a society that craves instant gratification.

Or, for every lazy user of easy-life options there's someone who will put in the same effort as before and just get more out - taking the average cyclist's interest in light, efficient bikes a step or 3 further?
It's easy to see a lazy quick-fix society but e-bikes to me are hope for more people on bikes in general, we all know how good riding a bike makes you feel and effort levels aren't always part of that. More people using bikes to get around, do the shopping, walk the dog further, feeling better during their day, that's a better society to me. Simplistic and a bit bright-side maybe but not too much to hope for. Good for the industry as a whole of course, I don't see any negatives there. It's not a new wheelsize : )

My commute is a hilly 13k, I arrive knackered, wearing all sorts of technical clothing. I need a 5min cool shower to re-form myself into office mode.

I'm increasingly aware that I make cycling look hard. Not something that my colleagues might like to try.

An e-bike would allow me to arrive looking/feeling fresh, already dressed for work.

I have a duty to buy an e-bike.

^ or give yourself an extra 20 mins to get in and take it easier : )
I'd commute on an e-bike. It wouldn't be an e-mtb but the right sort of city bike, certainly.

get up earlier? On a work-day?

**** that.

I don't get paid enough to get up before 7.

An e-bike would allow me to arrive looking/feeling fresh, already dressed for work.

You might be disappointed. People I know who ride e bikes still arrive looking sweaty. They're not electric motorbikes.

Have you never before seen someone justifying a new bike?

That's what it looks like.

Sorry, carry on. As you were, nothing to see here...

e-bikes over getting up early, sold..

I think that the Focus guy is more likely to be right - a small motor in the downtube that is recharged on descent, that would have a big impact on cargo bikes - anyone tried getting a Kona Ute up a hill with two kids on the back ????

booooooossst !!!! Straaaavaaa!!!!

No problem with e bikes ,just don't call it cycling .I think they are great for the old ,sick and lame if it keeps cars off congested roads then even better

e-bikes over getting up early, sold..

Exactly.

I have 2 choices:

1) get up 20 mins earlier so I can cruise to work at a civilised pace
2) buy a new e-bike that will allow me to snooze for an extra 20 mins (40 mins relative to option 1), and still get to work on time.

Tricky...

ahwiles - Member

e-bikes over getting up early, sold..

Exactly.

I have 2 choices:

1) get up 20 mins earlier so I can cruise to work at a civilised pace
2) buy a new e-bike that will allow me to snooze for an extra 20 mins (40 mins relative to option 1), and still get to work on time.

Tricky...

But just like any ordinairy bike the impetus to go faster will be there if the potential is. Well if you're anything like me anyway. It doesn't matter if I was commuting on a full sus mtb with 2.5 tyres or a slick shod hyrid bike, or way back a BMX I always put in a similar effort.

The hybrid requires much less effort than the MTB to cruise at say 12-14mph, but instead of happily doing those speeds I want to be doing 18-20 mph because the bike is capable of it.

Never say never I suppose, I could forsee circumstances under which I would find an e-bike preferable to no bike.

I have a good friend who suffers from CF as he puts it he has the lung capacity of a five year old, an otherwise fit and healthy adult for whom unassisted cycling is basically ruled out by a physical limitation, an e-bike could change that...

I have no such physical limitation and enjoy the sense of achievement that comes from "earning my turns" going back down after hoisting my arse up the hill, that won't change without something significant happening.

Or it's an alternative commuting tool to a car, I have no issue with that, less congesting and polluting than a motor vehicle, less knackering than a regular bike, not everyone on two wheels has to be a "proper cyclist"...

So really what we're hand wringing over here is the idea that e-bikes will somehow persuade the terminally lazy off the couch and up every big, muddy hill in the UK, can't see it personally... For people averse to pedalling that still want offroad kicks, we've had quads and MX bikes for some time, if they haven't picked that habbit up I doubt a leccy-push bike will really float their boats. For existing MTBists, we already know it's not "proper" MTBing that its a bit like cheating and that real men (and women) get about under their own power...

Edric 64 - Member
No problem with e bikes ,just don't call it cycling .I think they are great for the old ,sick and lame...

But surely the old, the sick and the lame already have gears and suspension available to them?

You can see lots of those aids being used by the infirm at the trail centres.

🙂

(Confession - I have every intention of getting an eBike when the time comes. )

Seeing how popular the uplifts are if they are provided theres no question about it that the ebikes are going to become the norm in mountain biking in the future, provided the technology does get there for a reasonable price.

grannyjone - Member
Seeing how popular the uplifts are if they are provided theres no question about it that the ebikes are going to become the norm in mountain biking in the future, provided the technology does get there for a reasonable price.

Good point.

It would make DH more accessible if it was possible to ride the bike uphill, and the bikes already have brakes and suspension up to the job.

grannyjone

Seeing how popular the uplifts are if they are provided theres no question about it that the ebikes are going to become the norm in mountain biking in the future, provided the technology does get there for a reasonable price.

epicyclo

Good point.

It would make DH more accessible if it was possible to ride the bike uphill, and the bikes already have brakes and suspension up to the job.

This raises lots of interesting questions. If there was an explosion of E-Bike DH (shall we call it EDH?) how would it effect DH racing? would it have it's own category? I think it'll be useful somewhere like UK & Ireland where we have relatively short climbs + descents but may not be as useful anywhere that a chairlift is a necessity.

If there's a general explosion in all disciplines of DH and in 10 years time every mtb is an e-mtb what will become of XC and Enduro?

Personally I think it'll be like a gateway drug for want of a better word, for real mountain biking. People who want to ride recreationally and some proportion of it is off road. A similar market to the £500-£1000 hardtail market today which probably accounts for the vast majority of mountain bikes sold.

Just because John Noob suddenly has a bike that can get him to the top of a huge mountain, doesn't mean he'll posses the skill and stamina to get it back down again.

[i]Personally I think it'll be like a gateway drug for want of a better word, for real mountain biking[/i]

No it won't. People aren't doing mountain biking 'cause it's hard or not accesable, they're not doing it because it's not mainstream in any way you can imagine. There simply aren't hordes of folk staring wistfully out of the window at mountains thinking to themselves "if only there was an assisted bicycle I could buy..."

off road cycling is a teeny teeny minority sport, it's not even the most popular form of cycling for goodness sakes.

nickc
No it won't. People aren't doing mountain biking 'cause it's hard or not accesable, they're not doing it because it's not mainstream in any way you can imagine. There simply aren't hordes of folk staring wistfully out of the window at mountains thinking to themselves "if only there was an assisted bicycle I could buy..."

off road cycling is a teeny teeny minority sport, it's not even the most popular form of cycling for goodness sakes.

You misunderstood me completely I think. I wasn't trying to say that it'll attract new people to the sport in droves, I was saying I could imagine a scenario where someone goes into a bike shop to buy his first mtb and has a choice of a £600 hardtail and a £900 E-mtb which will make the hard/boring/physical aspect of mountain biking less so.

He buys the E-bike, gets out on it, enjoys it and progresses to non assisted bikes.

I think there are many, many people who have tried mountain biking but have not stuck at it because they found the hills too hard. I think everyone enjoys riding a bike downhill its just the uphill that put people off. I could definitely see the popularity of the sport increasing with the Ebike but like I said earlier it could end up getting banned when the dog walkers complain even more about bikes.

It wont be sport on an ebike .Hills are part of the fun !

The only electric bike that I'd be interested in riding would be one of these-

[img] [/img]

I reckon it'd take some getting used to but I'd enjoy trying!

But, each to their own and while I can't see me ever getting an e-bike for some they might be the dogs bollocks.

It wont be sport on an ebike .Hills are part of the fun !

Uplift assisted downhill mountain biking is still a sport and using an uplift is easier than riding an electric assisted bike uphill.

Now one *massive* advantage of an ebike is that I wouldn't have to use my car to get to the trails.
At the moment I'm 10-15 miles away from where any of the good stuff starts (South Pennines) so I drive to/from the start points, as adding 20-30 miles of riding ontop of an already 30 mile off-road ride would be too much of a killer and would take a long time.

However, with the ebike I'd just ride that to the trails, do the ride, then ride it back home, no need to use the car for the local stuff! That would be fantastic.

I presume the battery range on these things will have to improve before this becomes a possibility though.

I expect laziness will win the day for a lot of people 😉 !!

Uplift assisted downhill mountain biking is still a sport and using an uplift is easier than riding an electric assisted bike uphill.

Now one *massive* advantage of an ebike is that I wouldn't have to use my car to get to the trails.
At the moment I'm 10-15 miles away from where any of the good stuff starts (South Pennines) so I drive to/from the start points, as adding 20-30 miles of riding ontop of an already 30 mile off-road ride would be too much of a killer and would take a long time.

However, with the ebike I'd just ride that to the trails, do the ride, then ride it back home, no need to use the car for the local stuff! That would be fantastic.

I presume the battery range on these things will have to improve before this becomes a possibility though.

It'd be cool if I could ride in semi/full assisted/powered mode to the trails, take the battery off and stick it in a charging point for a few hours (by which time it'll be fully charged again) and ride around under my own power on the now much lighter bike... getting all the benefits of having to do the work myself.. then when it's time to go home, get my battery and semi pedal/get pushed along on the way home.

That'd be awesome.

Edric 64 - Member
It wont be sport on an ebike .Hills are part of the fun !

For many people bikes are recreation not sport. They don't want to work too hard when having fun.

grannyjone - Member
...Now one *massive* advantage of an ebike is that I wouldn't have to use my car to get to the trails.
At the moment I'm 10-15 miles away from where any of the good stuff starts (South Pennines) so I drive to/from the start points, as adding 20-30 miles of riding ontop of an already 30 mile off-road ride would be too much of a killer and would take a long time.

I think many people have that issue, and it explains the resurgence of the all purpose bike aka "gravel bike".

E-bike. Pah!

[img] [/img]

10 years? I can't see that at all.. but the more you think about weight and technology progression, the consideration of an e-bike starts to change

If the battery adds less weight, and costs start dropping then it isn't hard to imagine it being the go-to bike for the majority, which would have a huge impact on mtb'ing/cycling in general.

What does a high end e-bike weigh? 45'ish lbs??
Is it realistic to see those batteries half in weight across the next 10 or 20 years??

A quick google and this pops up..[url= https://www.electricbike.com/lightest-bike/ ]https://www.electricbike.com/lightest-bike/[/url]

😯

I have a friend who used to ride bmx when he was a kid. After hearing me enthusing about our twice weekly rides he bought himself a second hand bike.

Problem was, because our group had been riding for years, and he hadn't he struggled to keep up. I was happy to hang back but he was worried about holding the group up and because he has 3 children and a demanding job, he couldn't get any extra riding in.

To cut a long story short an ebike would be great for him, as he loves riding off road but doesn't have time to get out much, at the moment.

i don't think climbing is boring. It may be hard, but I enjoy a technical climb as much as a descent.

Someone mentioned some trail centres hire out electric bikes. Anyone know which ones ? Especially ones which are in north west England if any ?
I wouldn't mind trying one out

Whinlatter does.

Not in the NW but recently I haven't been to a trail centre that [i]doesnt[/i] hire ebikes. They are everywhere

An eBike is literally the ONLY way my GF will be able to go for a ride with me, ever. I tried taking her for a 'traditional' natural-trails XC ride at the weekend and she barely managed 5 miles of it before throwing in the towel. She seems able to ride flat-ish short trail centre stuff okay - at her own pace - but gets visibly stressed when riding with me 'cos she knows I'm having to ride so slowly to be alongside her.

She's not exactly unfit, either, having been following an improving fitness regime for the last 6 months,

It's very hard for us committed cyclists to understand just how hard - relatively - off road riding is for more normal folk. I'd love to be able to show my GF just how cool it is to be able to ride off road at speed with ease and for her to ride alongside me. Unfortunately, the only way this will ever happen is if she makes up the deficit with a 350w electric motor.

Alternatively, for me - I could see an eBike being great for commuting if I ever had a 20-25 mile commute. I love the idea of hammering it out with e-assist and possibly kicking along at 30 mph! 😯

Otherwise e-Bikes are a no.

I spent around five hours in the Surrey Hills yesterday and in that time I estimate I spent around four hours dragging myself up hills and about one going down. I'm pretty fit and regularly do 100+ mile road sportives but can see the time when an e-bike will appeal, especially when the technology improves further and the price comes down.

I don't really see the difference between using an e-bike or an uplift to tell you the truth. It's all mechanical assistance so you can do more of the good bits and less of the bad. Technical climbs are one thing but boring fire roads just to get you back to square one are another.

If ebikes make cycling more accessible then so be it. For the vast majority of the population what we might consider a gentle trail feels like a mountain and is a turn off.

I gave my neighbour my old rockhopper, he doesn't ride it much as he gets out of puff going up a <3% gradient on the road outside the house, let alone doing anything remotely off road.

I suspect had I given him an ebike he would be using it a damn site more.

ebikes will always be heavier and light bikes feel so much nicer
ebikes will be more expensive for a given weight

There will always be a market for the pure, non electric cycling experience both on and off road.

Look at it this way, have gears resulted in the demise of single speed and fixed wheel bikes? Has suspension rendered hard tails and rigid bikes redundant off road? Of course not.

Ebikes will attract more people to cycling but think about why people cycle... There are as many reasons as there are types of bikes and that will continue to be the case, ebikes or not.

They are coming but the nay-sayers needn't worry about them taking over as in sporting and competition terms people want to see who's the best cyclist not who can steer an ebike the best.

National champs, WC, even regional XC, Enduro etc will all be human powered in terms of rank of achievement. There may be a category for ebikes but it will always come with an asterisk or carry less prestige than the 'elite' class results.

Certain high achieving ebike riders may pick up sponsorship from ebike manufacturers but I can't see the mainstream sponsors deviating from elite level human powered cyclists.

If ebikes make cycling more accessible then so be it. For the vast majority of the population what we might consider a gentle trail feels like a mountain and is a turn off.

I gave my neighbour my old rockhopper, he doesn't ride it much as he gets out of puff going up a <3% gradient on the road outside the house, let alone doing anything remotely off road.

I suspect had I given him an ebike he would be using it a damn site more.

ebikes will always be heavier and light bikes feel so much nicer
ebikes will be more expensive for a given weight

There will always be a market for the pure, non electric cycling experience both on and off road.

Look at it this way, have gears resulted in the demise of single speed and fixed wheel bikes? Has suspension rendered hard tails and rigid bikes redundant off road? Of course not.

Ebikes will attract more people to cycling but think about why people cycle... There are as many reasons as there are types of bikes and that will continue to be the case, ebikes or not.

Very true. I wonder how long it will be before we see a "I started on an e-bike but graduated to non-assisted" thread on STW?

I was thinking a bit more about this on a ride yesterday. It's pretty common for people to want lighter/more sus/etc to be able to kep up with mates on group rides. I hadn't appreciated how that may start a swing toward e-mtbs. A group of guys more into downs than ups, like a bit of banter about who's first/last, pretty normal MTB group really. One gets an e-mtb to help on the climbs and it goes from there. If it works that way for MTBs, it could happen with road bikes.
Assuming batteries will be a fair bit lighter/more capacity in 5years or so, and the drive system optimised for climb-assist to leave a fairly normal bike the rest of the time.. maybe. Either that or (more likely) it becomes another genre thing that splits or defines riding groups.

Look at it this way, have gears resulted in the demise of single speed and fixed wheel bikes? Has suspension rendered hard tails and rigid bikes redundant off road? Of course not.

Very true. I wonder how long it will be before we see a "I started on an e-bike but graduated to non-assisted" thread on STW?

I can point you to a long thread just like this on a motorbike forum.

A fella called EddieJ started on an ebike, did about a year... then moved to 1 ride ebike, 1 manual, then onto completely manual and now putting in regular Wiggle 40km rides etc on a standard machine.

In 10 years time the technology will be so good that, particularly for batteries, that I doubt you'd see much of a hindrance with having an e-bike. It'll just make you feel faster

You might like that, you might not.

They'll be plenty who do, and fair play to them. I think they're a great idea, I've not been on one but it'll make cycling more accessible to more people, which will improve things all round I think

It's all been tried before. Blow-air Mountain Biking didn't catch on so I don't expect E-Mountain Biking will either.

It's a great opportunity for the manufacturers, all those lovely new standards to foist on us. They must be salivating.

[quote=benp1 ]In 10 years time the technology will be so good that, particularly for batteries, that I doubt you'd see much of a hindrance with having an e-bike. It'll just make you feel faster
You might like that, you might not.

This battery thing needs to be addressed. Lots of people seem to be assuming that there's going to be some magic in the next 10 years resulting in batteries halving in weight (or even more based on statements like the one above). It appears that high end ones are already using LiIon batteries. The technology in those hasn't changed fundamentally in well over 10 years (I started using them for my bike lights over 10 years ago - the energy density in what I was using then is only about 10% less than the current state of the art). There isn't anything else on the horizon which is suddenly going to transform things - if there was anything likely to be readily available in 10 years time it would have already got plenty of publicity at the research stages. So the answer is that the battery on an e-bike in 10 years is likely to be at best 10 or 20% lighter than it is today.

Of course there is also the possibility of efficiency improvements in other parts of the system, but then similar arguments apply - electric motors are very mature technology and it seems e-bikes have already got to the point where they're using what is close to state of the art. Against which you also have to balance the call for greater range - people seem to be assuming this will somehow also improve by orders of magnitude.

This is all of course ignoring the issue that plenty of us are perfectly happy pedalling our bikes around - I don't think the single-speed (or suspension etc.) analogy is a very good one as that doesn't change the fundamental principle involved (OK so I'm even more of a freak, and think even single-speeders are too easy 😉 ). Sure there is a market for e-bikes and they will get a lot more mainstream than they are now - I could even see them having more than 50% of the market, but suggesting that there will be no bikes without it is marketing puff.

On a separate but tech related point - What about regen technology from braking? like on cars

Ah, sorry, meant to mention that. It's certainly a possibility, but don't think it will be a complete game changer. Given the control problems it's going to be difficult to integrate without causing traction issues (remember cars already have stuff like ABS, which has been tried on bikes and discarded as impractical). Though the bigger issue is that you don't actually use the brakes on a bike anything as much as you might think - if we're talking about off-road, then a lot of energy is lost due to the terrain. You'll certainly get a lot lower proportion back than on a normal road vehicle. I'd be surprised if somebody doesn't try it, but not sure whether it will even be worth it.

benp1 - Member

On a separate but tech related point - What about regen technology from braking? like on cars

Suspension might work better.

This battery thing needs to be addressed. Lots of people seem to be assuming that there's going to be some magic in the next 10 years resulting in batteries halving in weight (or even more based on statements like the one above). It appears that high end ones are already using LiIon batteries. The technology in those hasn't changed fundamentally in well over 10 years (I started using them for my bike lights over 10 years ago - the energy density in what I was using then is only about 10% less than the current state of the art). There isn't anything else on the horizon which is suddenly going to transform things - if there was anything likely to be readily available in 10 years time it would have already got plenty of publicity at the research stages. So the answer is that the battery on an e-bike in 10 years is likely to be at best 10 or 20% lighter than it is today.

I'm not sure I agree with that aracer. There are a lot of companies and research facilities pumping an awful lot of money into battery research. They wouldn't be doing that if there were no possibility of considerable breakthroughs in terms of efficiency and power. Electric vehicles of all sorts are currently limited by lithium ion cells and there promises to be big rewards for anyone who cracks this problem.

It may not happen in the short-term but the way technology generally advances I'm pretty sure there will be a major breakthrough in the next ten years. Obviously filter-through for general consumer items like mobile phones etc. will take longer but it will come in time.

I think the thing with battereis (as I understand them, most definatly not a battery expert) is we are already at the end of the period table with lithium being the smallest metal element. A lot of the improvment in bettereies over the past few years has been the movment ot Li based batteries. So any improvments will only be limited to better implimentation of what we have rather than being able to mov up the peroidc table as we hve done prevously.

[quote=forzafkawi ]There are a lot of companies and research facilities pumping an awful lot of money into battery research. They wouldn't be doing that if there were no possibility of considerable breakthroughs in terms of efficiency and power.

They were 10 and 20 years ago. A 10% improvement in efficiency takes an awful lot of research and is worth a lot of money.

It may not happen in the short-term but the way technology generally advances I'm pretty sure there will be a major breakthrough in the next ten years.

You're basing your confidence on Moore's law type technological advances? Unfortunately not all technology is the same - some is very mature and has run up against physical limits. Maybe you're a better fortune teller than me but then you also seem to be suggesting something coming out of research labs in the next 10 years. Based on what we do know at the moment of any published research there isn't anything which is going to halve the weight of a typical battery on an e-bike in the next 10 years - which is what people are suggesting.

Ha ha, that blow air video is awesome. Not sure why Warner didn't take it off-road, but it looks awesome. You know that feeling when you get a massive tail-wind on a run? On every run! Awesome.

Can't see battery tech being good enough any time soon, though we keep hearing about graphene batteries, so maybe that'll be a game changer. We are due a game changer with batteries.

Mind you, if it's all about energy density, petrol has pretty good stats. Can an engine be built light enough for 10-20 bhp?

Anyway, blow-air. Just awesome.

Warner's a right boy eh?!....that blow air thing looks more fun than ebikes, where do I sign?

We were promised jetpacks....

There'll obviously be an increase in ebike sales, but to suggest they'll be the predominant form of mtb in 10, 15, 20 years is just not going to happen. The whole ethos of cycling is that its self wholly self propelled. The majority just don't want to make it easier, the idea is that it a bit hard. The quick fix an ebike gives an able bodied person is just that a "quick fix". I don't or any cyclist I've spoken to see it as anything other than a novelty with no real or lasting benefit to cycling as a sport.

[quote=taxi25 ] I don't or any cyclist I've spoken to see it as anything other than a novelty with no real or lasting benefit to cycling as a sport.
Assuming you see cycling as a "sport" and not a past-time of course...

I don't own an e-bike because they don't handle well enough (I presume) due to the weight. And I can't afford one.

I'm not sure I wouldn't buy one if the two issues above were properly sorted. Think of it this way a 2 hour 20 mile ride becomes a 2 hour 30 mile ride. You work just as hard, but travel faster and travel further. What's not to like

I think the above is far more in-keeping with how most people ride - for fun rather than to beast themselves - and you can still beast yourself anyway. You just get more of the fun stuff while you're at it.

Lots of people live in places where there's not that much fun stuff anyway, but using the motor to get through the dull stuff makes better rides accessible.