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http://www.bike-eu.com/shows-events/nieuws/2015/8/future-of-mountainbikes-is-electric-10124493
I'd say the guy from Focus is wrong, but it's interesting to see such strong opinions about e-mtbs.
Hopefully we'll see as much attention on leisure/all-round e-bikes that have more chance of increasing bike use in general.
No pubs and now this.
Life isn't worth living.
It's now 2015, I was promised hover boards by 2000.
They lie.
Could be a large proportion I'll give him that, not all though.
Some of us like being fit and keeping fit afterall.
They have their place though, definitely have their place in our world.
How will that impact on racing?
Two things will stop that happening. Actually three.
- Cost - eBikes aren't cheap
- Luddites - you only need to look at the threads on here to see that many will reject them outright
- Macho/Fitness/etc - many people will continue to want to power their bikes by their own effort alone for whatever reasons even if eBikes cost less than, er, not-e bikes
It's just hyperbole - first rule of marketing, etc. Or delusion.
Complete tosh. Ebike have a place, just hopefully not on natural trails.
I'd say the guy from Focus is wrong
I'd bet actual money on him being wrong.
There will be a lot more of them, and in widespread use, but I don't think it will even be the norm let alone the only option.
People ride bikes for many reasons, but a lot of them are to do with fitness and the very fact that is IS human powered.
Hopefully we'll see as much attention on leisure/all-round e-bikes that have more chance of increasing bike use in general
Agreed, I think utility and general transport cycling are set for a big boom over the next decade and e-assistance could/will really help fuel this.
Ebike have a place, [s]just hopefully not on natural trails[/s].
They have a place full stop.
I wouldn't bet against you Amedias.
I've had an e-bike here for a while now (or my OH has, it's a bit small for me) and I have to say that it's more than grown on me, I think it's fantastic. I've ridden it at times when I feel tired but still want to get outside. It's made me realise that the exercise/effort part of cycling is more seperable than I thought from the motion and the outdoor fix, the general feel of it that I like so much. Also for us to be able to do 90-100 miles, 50% off-road over a bike camping weekend where I'm working as hard as I like on the hills and she's not only keeping up but dropping me, it opens up new uses of the bikes.
But still, 'all MTBs', nah.
It's cheating.
Ebike have a place, just hopefully not on natural trails.
That's the same argument used against us by some walkers, etc.
Banning is silly unless there's actually a reason to do so.
Until there's a BSO eqivalent (for £99) there will still be push powered bikes, and yeah 'purists' riding 'real' bikes, like the rigid single speeders of this day and age.
Think the BSO versions will be great though, 50/60 kilos of pig iron with old Landy diesel batteries strapped to them, what could go wrong?
: )It's cheating.
It's only cheating if there's rules.
E-bikes are fantastic but they are motorised vehicles and need to be regulated as such.
cbmotorsport - Member
It's cheating.
So's riding a bike instead of walking/running.
The BSOs are already out there! I see plenty of e-bikes at work (Dr Bike) and they're all crap.
APF
Cue lots of uninformed posts from people who either don't understand what an e-bike is or haven't even tried one.
Whether e-bikes are cheating/cycling/work of the devil has been covered fully on several previous threads but don't let that stop you repeating the debate 😉
250W pedelecs are classed as bicycles. The 500W MTBs mentioned in that article are different though, that's some sort of e-moped. Access and regulation may limit the popularity there.they are motorised vehicles and need to be regulated as such.
It's now 2015, I was promised hover boards by 2000.
October 2015, assuming that's a reference to Back to the Future
So Mattel had better hurry up!
Seen quite a few e-MTBs. Quite surprised how many were chained up outside the bike stores in Morzine too.
and yeah [s]'purists'[/s] 'cyclists' riding real bikes
FTFY
I think they're great. they look loads of fun. Wouldn't want one myself (as I'm an idiot who likes pedalling) but I can see them becoming more and more popular, and they make terrain and trails accessible to a huge section of population who wouldn't otherwise get to enjoy the trails
The reason against usage on natural trails is just the same as moto-x on natuaral trails. Its not that you can't ride responibly with a motor it is that it takes much more self control ans skill as you become less awear of the speed as it is easier to obtain.
Thing is, I reckon if I went out and got an ebike, coming back from a ride, I'd feel much the same as if I'd gone out on a normal bike and I'd have probably had a broadly similar riding experience just faster. In some ways that's why I'd not be that interested in actually getting one though I could see that it could open out possibilities of rides that I couldn't probably fit into the time I have or riding with mates who are much faster than me.
So until they require no fitness (which they won't while they're limited to 250W) then the people using them are still cyclists in my view.
depends, among other things, if they are banned from dedicated trail center trails 😉
it is that it takes much more self control ans skill as you become less awear of the speed as it is easier to obtain.
I'm pretty sure I've heard the same levelled at mtbers by walkers...
Besides, as I think about it, ebikes are speed limited - they provide power up to 15mph so actually they're not as fast as fast mtbers. Presumably then the people wanting to ban them out of hand also want the skinny fast whippet types banned from trails too 🙂 Actually, could be a good thing. Baggy lycra is never a nice sight 😉
If we didn't have ebikes we couldn't have this
The reason against usage on natural trails is just the same as moto-x on natuaral trails. Its not that you can't ride responibly with a motor it is that it takes much more self control ans skill
^ pretty well debunked on previous discussion threads.
short version: power output insufficient to 'rip' the trails up/no more damaging than a rider with the same lack of skill.
The only ones that could cause issues are the massively powerful or un-restricted ones which aren't legal to use on conventional rights of way anyway, so back to the same argument of illegal use of $VEHICLE vs legal use.
I did not say they would make a slow person faster than a fast person I said they would make it easier to obtain a higher speed. That is there entire point! Higher speed requires more skill and self control. Assuming a constant number of inconsiderate riders, (which Ithink is a fais assumption) more people obtaining higher speed means more people being inconsiderate at a higher speed. Simple.
We've had about 130 years since the Rover Safety (1880's) was first launched as a mass-made bicycle and haven't yet rejected the idea of a human-powered machine despite plenty of powered alternatives being available - mopeds, motorbikes, cars etc
At the moment in the UK, the trend is in the opposite direction (albeit from a low base given our obsession with the car since 1950s)
Maybe e-bikes have their place, but complete replacement seems doubtful, there'll always be those who prefer the pleasure of 100% human-powered riding I expect
P.S. I'm not anti ebikes in genral, I think they could and should make massive inroads for commuting and untility bikes opening up the worl of bikes to many who would have not considered them or increased the range of use for others making them more useful.
Ok, Brick, statistically I agree but I think that's clutching at straws. If the speed limit was really high (say 25mph) then I think you'd have a case. At 15mph I really don't see that it makes a major difference. By my reckoning, most inconsiderate riding happens DH (or fast flat stuff) and an ebike isn't really helping you much there.
A lot of folk on here turning their noses up at them, talk of banning etc. Whilst I wouldn't want one myself, I think it's a bit narrow minded to be so opposed to them.
What about the benefits to people with impaired mobility, for example, someone who has had a stroke, or heart attack? Should they be denied the physical and mental health benefits of mountain biking? Or is it just the fatties people don't want razzing about on these?
Me and the other half don't ride much together as she can't keep up, particularly where there are hills. Going slow is quite frustrating for the faster rider. One of these could close that gap, making the ride more enjoyable for both parties
Too true, but would say 15 mph on the flat is pretty fast, I'm strong on fast smooth stuff (ridgid 29er most of the time) and I can't hole must more thatn 15mph for a long time. On my commute part of which is on a gravel disued railway line I get up to about 17-18mph when pushing it (28mm road tyres).
Is it worth fitting a dropper post to an e-bike?
Most mtb rides I do average about 10-11 mph. I'm not very fast. Riding at 15mph on the flat is not fast (and certainly not on the trails that are likely to have walkers, etc on)
I like to think i'm relatively fit and I enjoy riding up the hills but for me the real fun is coming back down. Having had a go on a basic front suspension haibike would I want an e-bike as well....hell yes. Something like the Specialized Turbo Levo would fit the bill and I suspect it would become quite addictive. I've got two hours to ride, I can either do 13 miles of my usual up fireroads and down fun wiggly trails or I can do 20 miles of the same. Which gets me more fun downhill stuff? There's quite a good article in the first Cranked magazine about them. I'd still like to ride a 'normal' bike as well but the e-bike would make a very nice n+1.
What i'm really interested in is an e-bike which can make my 30 mile each way commute by bike less time consuming and easier on the legs so I can do it five days a week and get rid of the car. One of those swiss beasties with assist up to 45km/h would do the job nicely I suspect.
Will they take over entirely? No, in the same way that there are plenty of people riding singlespeeds, or hardtails, or with no suspension at all.
that old chestnut about cyclists living 10 years longer will go out the window as just going downhill ain't going to do much for your aerobic fitness...
The H.G. Wells quote will also lose it's meaning :
"Every time I see an adult on a bicycle, I no longer despair for the future of the human race"
as I don't think powered bikes where really what he meant.
I wouldn't bet against it, with almost every game-changer or major innovation in last couple of decades I've said "that'll never catch on" suspension forks, full suspension XC bikes, Carbon Bikes generally, carbon bikes for anything other than super-light XC stuff, carbon DH bikes, 29ers, 650b, wide bars, wider bars, even wider bars, 9sp, 10sp, 11sp, 2x drive trains, 1x drive trains, electronic shifting etc etc and I've scoffed at these 'gimmicks' and 12 months later they're the next big thing and 12 months later they're just the norm.
As for racing, they'll probably go down the F1 route of maximum capacity, maximum output and maybe even some sort of energy recovery system.
I think the chap from Focus is exactly as wrong as most of the anti-ebike posts in this thread tbh.
Klunk - Member
depends, among other things, if they are banned from dedicated trail center trails
Given that quite a few trail centres appear to have added eBikes to their hire fleets that seems unlikely.
This could be the end of the " I hate riding up hills" by the mrs when she comes out on a ride with me 😆
I think that's a great use for them. Allowing couples to ride together. P Jay makes a good point. I'll bet the anti e bikers were down on other tech until it became mainstream.This could be the end of the " I hate riding up hills" by the mrs when she comes out on a ride with me
I wonder if an unpowered e bike would be ok with just regenerative braking.
What would you be saving that energy for if it was unpowered? 😉
I'm fine with ebikes. Thinks its great that more people can get on a bike for commute and leisure, isn't there an ebike initiative in the lakes? But I have a worry about people with limited fitness getting into the middle of nowhere and really struggling to get back. The "nah, I haven't got the legs to go on" feeling will be eroded. They have a place and they are happening but there will be more complaints against "mountain bikers" as more and more people access the countryside that would be out of their normal fitness range.
I've lost count of the number of times I've heard people on here claim that they only really care about the descents. That climbs are something to be endured. Lifts at trail centres seem to be fully booked weeks or even months in advance. Once the weight and price come down a bit I can see there being plenty of demand for power assisted bikes and as we've seen numerous times, once the mountain bike industry spot a demand they all jump to supply it.
Some people want slightly bigger wheels and suddenly nobody is producing new bikes with the old size any more. Some people want a bit of an assist and suddenly you can't buy a decent bike without a motor of some sort. Unlikely, but not impossible given that we all seem to be gluttons for our doom.
No doubt they'll be much more common, perhaps they'll even be a (small) majority. But I don't see them making regular bikes obsolete.
<<<< thisCue lots of uninformed posts from people who either don't understand what an e-bike is or haven't even tried one
simondbarnes - MemberCue lots of uninformed posts from people who either don't understand what an e-bike is or haven't even tried one
<<<< this
How the hell does someone not understand what an E-Bike is? It's pretty straightforward. I've ridden shit loads of the things, including folders, trikes, cruisers and more and it didn't spark some kind of epiphany in my head where previously there'd been some kind of blockage or lack of understanding.
I agree with the Focus guy.
A 29+ full sus e-bike with 33 speed Di2, a push-to-pass button, traction and launch control - sign me up!
Hopefully you're not one of them but go on then, explain what an e-bike (at least in the sense being discussed in the OP's link) is because I can assure you, the other threads made clear that lots of people don't know what they are...
“In ten years, there will no more MTB’s without electric motors.”
That will be the day after I fit gears and suspension, then?
The industry can dream about disposable-teching us up, but there still will be a lot of us who just want to ride a plain simple proper bicycle. 🙂
with almost every game-changer or major innovation in last couple of decades I've said "that'll never catch on"
A point worth remembering. As batteries and motors develop the bikes will get lighter and 10 years is a long time in electronics development. A minor weight penalty for a hills-booster power pack that also powers the gears, I can see that working well. Saying 'all MTBs will be e-mtbs' is misjudging the motivations for many MTBers imo but the 'classic/pure' MTB could become a minority if e-bikes generally grow in the way some predict and the typical 2-3K FS trail bike market stays fairly flat.
Actually if the chap from Focus had in mind 'motors' as in e-gearing with a battery topped up by a small dynamo I'd say he's likely to be right.
This thread is worth bookmarking for ten years time!
I don't think the weight's really the issue tbh. Til they can make a £350 e-bike (which is pretty much where "proper" mtbs start) without compromising usability it'll never happen.
Anyone who follows the bike industry has seen this the same launch about every 5 years or so, for the last 25 years. They have got better, but nothing has fundamentally changed.
I can't imagine anyone in the "industry" would resort to hyperbolic cobblers in order to shift their latest product. Must be completely true then...
I stil run a suntour XC pro front handlebar shifter mech (year about. 1992)
-eat your heart out :)))
Don't agree with that. This is the first year I've regularly seen one on rides. I'd say about 1 in 3 rides I see an e bike. Almost every bike shop seems to have one. There were loads in Morzine this year. I'd say it's a fundamental change.Anyone who follows the bike industry has seen this the same launch about every 5 years or so, for the last 25 years. They have got better, but nothing has fundamentally changed
So at what sort of distance does the battery become ballast, and is regenerative braking (say on long gentle slopes) in sight yet?
I'd have one for the turbo
Personaly it's not for me but for many it will allow more access and I think that's a good thing but there are many issues over output speed and regulation. With no easy solution I can see ( number plates ) etc.
They would be much faster than a regular MTB apart from going downhill. 15mph on the flat is really hard on a regular MTB it takes a huge effort that cannot be sustained for long periods, especially on a bad surface such as grass. If the wind is against you then its nowhere near that speed. Much faster uphill it goes without saying. I'd want one when they come down in price and get lighter weight. Lifting a 30kg bike over gates wouldn't be much fun, niether would pushing it up a hill if it couldn't get traction, or having the battery fail when its 20 miles away from the car.
if I do a hilly 30 mile ride on a regular MTB I'm too knackered to properly enjoy another good ride the next day while if I had the ebike I could just get that out.
Mountain biking will increase in popularity if the Ebikes came down in price and got lighter, as the sport would be more accessible to more people who previously were put off by the climbs. The problem is the natural trails would become overcrowded with bikes, going fast all the time regardless of gradient (not just downhill) and no doubt the dog walkers, hikers and other trail users will complain much MUCH more and it is more likely to get them banned on natural trails.
15 mph on the flat is easy enough if it's smooth ish. And very normal on the road/cycle path
Haven't read the whole thread...
Has anyone mentioned potential legality issues given that most path access is for non-motorised vehicles?
would you need a cbt and just be limited to byways ? Again output dependent I'm guessing
I'm generally about 5 years behind the current frames so mine won't be 'e'!
It's just more maintenance for the non enthusiast, so it won't ever happen entirely. IMO.
Mountain biking will increase in popularity if the Ebikes came down in price and got lighter, as the sport would be more accessible to more people who previously were put off by the climbs.
I'm kind of against things that make outdoor activities easier unless it's for people with a disability who couldn't access it otherwise. In saying this I realise that I regularly use many inventions that make my biking etc easier.
Not just people with disabilities.There are some people who don't bike regularly so even just 12 miles is a struggle on a hilly off road route, so they dont ride often as such a short distance is hardly worth the bother of getting to the start point of a ride. I work with someone in this category and he said he'd like an electric mountain bike one day.
There are also even good riders who occasionally have time off the bike due to knee injuries etc an electric bike will still allow them to get out on long hilly off road routes while waiting for the knee to recover. Instead of spending an entire summer off the bike or just being stuck to easy rides while recovering from injury
My feeling, grannyjone is that the people you describe should alter their expectations whilst injured or build up to doing the kind of riding they want to do rather than using technology to overcome these difficulties. I think you get out of things what you put in and if you bypass the road to fitness or other difficulties you are impoverishing your own experience. Others, I know, will not agree.
There's a lot of pros and cons. You can see that in the replies.
For me it's down to a simple thing, it just feels wrong, it feels more like a motorbike and if you want one of those then go buy one but in my simple brain it just goes against what mountain biking is.
And for that reason I'm out.
[quote=ti_pin_man ]it just feels wrong, it feels more like a motorbike As a motorbikist I'd completely disagree.
[quote=Spin ]I'm kind of against things that make outdoor activities easier unless it's for people with a disability who couldn't access it otherwise. In saying this I realise that I regularly use many inventions that make my biking etc easier.Lightweight bikes and components have helped people go higher and farther. Disk brakes and suspension have helped people go faster and be comfortable for longer. Where, exactly, are you drawing the line?
15mph probably seems about right for an off-road one I reckon, that's still pretty damn quick though.
What I think is shit is the 15mph speed "limit" on the road, what a shitty dangerous speed that is. It's waaaaay too fast for shared use paths bit not fast enough to mix with traffic, actually makes it more dangerous, needs to be 20mph at least, maybe 25mph.
[quote=monkeyfudger ]15mph probably seems about right for an off-road one I reckon, I reckon that's still pretty damn quick though.
What I think is shit is the 15mph speed "limit" on the road, what a shitty dangerous speed that is. It's waaaaay too fast for shared use paths bit not fast enough to mix with traffic, actually makes it more dangerous, needs to be 20mph at least, maybe 25mph.
You can still do that speed. It's not like the brakes come on automatically or anything
Not with any assistance, [jumping to conclusions] most using 'em probably don't want to be or can't push the pedals hard enough to get that far above 15-16mph.
I imagine you knew what I meant though...
Are you suggesting that no one should be cycling on the road if they can't do 20-25mph?
I've just come back from Austria - where e-bikes are already popular. A shop there said that for the first time this year they have sold as many e-bikes as conventional bikes. The rate of improvement in e-bikes is huge and the costs will invariably come down.
A virtually free unconstrained uplift service will be a guilty pleasure. There will inevitably access issues which will be virtually impossible to police.
Are you suggesting that no one should be cycling on the road if they can't do 20-25mph?
No of course not, try to stop being a douche. I'm suggesting that higher speeds would actually make 'em safer as they'd be able to mix with traffic better. Higher speeds would make them more desirable to more commuters too.
So - no less safe than current bikes then? Just that you said it was a "shitty, dangerous speed"