DJI comes out swinging saying the new e-bike proposals do not “have a clear theoretical foundation”.
The company also appears to accuse Specialized (with its new two-tier Turbo Levo Gen 4 models) of “certain practices within the industry that are exploiting user needs, where certain manufacturers differentiate their products by imposing subscription-based fees or offering superior performance or features exclusively for premium models, despite identical hardware components. They profit primarily through software limitations.”
If/when the new regulations get introduced – which won’t be any time that soon in all likelihood – DJI states “we are committed to adhere to established guidelines. We are also committed to providing our users with support in light of any regulatory changes that may impact our products.”
Official statement from DJI in full:
1. The proposed restriction of 750 W does not appear to have a clear theoretical foundation justifying why this specific limit has been chosen. We believe it is essential for the industry to engage in more thorough and comprehensive discussions to determine an appropriate power limit.
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2. The imposition of a 750 W limit may overlook the needs of certain vulnerable groups, including individuals with disabilities who require enhanced assistance, those with higher body weights, minors, and users of e-cargo bikes for transporting supplies, where often involve loads up to 400 kg, necessitating additional support when navigating inclined terrains. We urge policymakers to consider these unique requirements in their deliberations.
(Additionally, It is also important to recognize that in scenarios involving e-cargo bikes, users with higher body weights etc., the riding speed tends to be significantly lower than the speed limit. Consequently, the associated kinetic energy and the likelihood of potential injuries remain low and within acceptable safety standards.)
(E-Cargo bikes might need to be discussed separately, as there might be a separate classification for e-cargo in the future? We support the establishment of more nuanced classifications and standards within the industry, rather than imposing a blanket lower power restriction across the board. It is our position that a tailored approach would better address the diverse needs and applications within this sector.)
3. Our pursuit of enhanced power is driven by the goal of improving the riding experience (while maintaining a balance between the wear and cost of easily worn components), rather than merely increasing power for its own sake. For instance, the Avinox’s power output is intelligently modulated, automatically decreasing power and torque during gear shifts. This strategy extends the life of the transmission system, ensuring an optimal balance between performance, safety, and reliability.
4. It is crucial to remain critical regarding certain practices within the industry that are exploiting user needs, where certain manufacturers differentiate their products by imposing subscription-based fees or offering superior performance or features exclusively for premium models, despite identical hardware components. They profit primarily through software limitations. This highlights the critical importance of prioritizing genuine user needs and maintaining transparency in product offerings.
5. We recognize the need for more adaptable solutions for eMTB riders, including scene-based power modes and user-adjustable settings, which we have successfully developed and implemented. These features allow users to tailor the power mode (including the highest power setting) to meet varying situational demands, such as requiring greater power when starting the ride or ascending hills, thereby enhancing the overall riding experience within legal speed limits. This innovation has been widely validated in the market.
6. We’re closely monitoring the EU regulations and we are committed to adhere to established guidelines. We are also committed to providing our users with support in light of any regulatory changes that may impact our products. Should such circumstances arise, we will ensure that our end users and OEM bike brands have access to the necessary resources and guidance for adaptations.
7. Avinox represents more than merely power output; its innovation is reflected in various features, such as its compact size and lightweight design, impressive power-to-weight ratio, seamless software-hardware integration, advanced smart-assist algorithms, lightweight yet high-capacity battery, rapid charging capabilities and more. All these elements underscore Avinox’s commitment to enhancing user experience and exemplify our dedication to innovation.
8. Since its launch, Avinox has swiftly garnered acclaim from OEM bike brands, users, and top tier media outlets and organizations, underscoring the importance for the industry to heed these voices.
And in other news “Mice don’t like cats"
“including individuals with disabilities who require enhanced assistance, those with higher body weights, minors, and users of e-cargo bikes for transporting supplies, where often involve loads up to 400 kg, necessitating additional support when navigating inclined terrains"
Strange.. their only model of adult eMTB has a rider weight limit of 125kg… are they developing cargo bikes, I wonder.
As my user name hints, Amflow bikes are not accessible for those with “higher body weights".
How many eMTB’s have a weight limit higher than 125kg? Trek do 136kg on the Rail but that includes the weight of the bike.
As was said on the other thread, I would take a reduction in power any day for reliability and cheaper systems
I’d probably prefer voluntary, manufacturer control as the alternative may well be a knee jerk piece of legislation that isn’t ideal.Â
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didn’t the proposed changes cone from an industry body in Germany?
this reaction from DJI suggests that the manufacturers may struggle to agree  on voluntary controls.
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Just because DJI don’t cater for 400kg loads doesn’t mean they shouldn’t care about restrictions that would affect others that might. And they’re having a pop at the subscription model of motor/drive capabilities as well, which I can only see as a good thing.
This response puts DJI in a good light from my perspective.
Not sure why people are talking as if Amflow is the only DJ1-motored bike, or the only one there will be. Forbidden and Unno are both using the Avinox motor and there’s bound to be more, DJ1 have every right as a motor supplier to pitch in on the whole sector, not just on the bits they’ve directly targeted already. And it seems like a pretty well reasoned argument, albeit obviously self-serving too.
750W seems to be being targered largely because a) it’s a nice round number and b) some of the brands involved’s biggest motor is 750W.
Large loads : another vehicle class.
Disabled transport : another vehicle class.
These needs can be catered for while restricting what can be treated the same as a bike without any motor assistance.
“including individuals with disabilities who require enhanced assistance, those with higher body weights, minors…"
Why would minors need more power?
also 750W = 1hp.
abritrary choice of unit giving nice round number
Because of all the coal they lug along ?
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Genuine question: isn’t 750 W quite a lot? The vast majority of people on bikes couldn’t put out 750 W for more than a few seconds. Of course, there’s the weight of the motor and battery to be considered, but still.
I think that electric delivery vehicles and mobility aids for people with disabilities are great. But I think that the category of vehicle that that we call e-bikes is widely regarded as ‘essentially a bike but with some electrical assistance to enable users to do their bikerising with less effort’. So whilst it might mean more admin, we clearly need more / different vehicle classifications.
If having 1000 W+ in an e-MTB has no major downsides (maybe we just need to get used to things going fast uphill as well as down?) then why not allow it on that basis? But not on the basis that somewhere there’s a 400 kg delivery vehicle that needs a lot of power to work. That just smacks of disingenuosity across the board, and devalues any case for why they should be allowed.
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Yes – 1000w or 750w is loads. As far as I can see there are no realistic use case for it, other than e-mtbers wanting to go faster up/down hills etc, which is not remotely in the spirit of why e-bikes are classified as cycles.
Maybe there is a niche use case for a cargo bike at 500w, but this feels like it would be better addressed with a new category rather than giving a huge loophole that allows what are really e-motorbikes to be ridden as bicycles.
I’m sure someone will shortly tell me the legislation says 250w is the max sustained power not instantaneous, but having it cut reduce after 30 minutes is not in the spirit of things.
I reckon the vast majority of people would struggle to put out *half* that for any length of time. Even a third would probably be above the average FTP.
I don’t really get why ebikes have anything near that much power, with a top assisted speed of 15.5mph, unless manufacturers are *intending* that people derestrict them.
Whilst for you or I yes it is if you look at comments from a lot of ebikers demanding an increase in the permitted speed they seem to happily cruise at 20mph plus so I guess for them its a bogstandard output.
Is the limit because eBikes are dual use – capable of being ridden on the road? Why should they have limits off road? Nothing else does.
It’s because the limits are to allow them to be treated as bicycles. They can be used on cycle paths and bridleways without training or licence. Something we want to keep (assuming “we" are people who think eBikes are a useful extension of bikes for transport and leisure use). You can buy electric motorbikes with no limits to race on land you have permission to use. You can buy electric motorbikes to use on the road only with much higher limits, with their own regulations far beyond the regulations on bikes and eBikes.
Ultimately some ebikers just want to be able to go faster and faster.Â
They have to face reality that they are both too lazy to actually pedal and also to chicken to go the whole way and get a crosser.
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Sadly if the power limits keep increasing then we will get bans starting to crop up on trails in the UK. For me I don’t really care, but at least it will reduce some of the erosion of trails as people won’t have the energy to ride the same trail 20 times in one ride