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They must have sunk millions into r and d for rear suspension over the years but I've seen nothing to suggest it's resulted in any significant sales or even much interest from the general public.
I'm pretty confident rear suspension isn't something I want or need on a road or gravel lite bike.
I guess they must think it's the next big thing?
Just marketing to raise brand awareness?
Suspension keeps wheels in better contact with rough surfaces, more conact more grip, more grip more power down, more power down more race wins, maybe why Sky are testing. You can bet if they start winning races on them they'll be demand, even if nobody really needs it. Not that anyone is allowed to race discs yet...
Reduced rider fatigue, too.
Discs are winning races already!
Well, I thinks it's because it's a looker.
Think Froomies flailing octopus images and this bike in the same frame.
Look the same ?
Ok, squint a bit and the tap your left hand on the back of your head repeatedly for .. ohh hang on, turns page over... it says 11mins but you need to also stand under an Alp in Winter.
Now do you see the similarities?
Honestly, these bike manuals are hard to read, especially the Chinese Translation section.
isn't this what the new spec Roubaix does?
Yeh less fatigue too, I was thinking more of pro level wins creating a halo effect.
ultimate gravel bike.
And then you get someone like Mat Hayman who comes along and wins Paris-Roubaix on a bog standard aero road bike and everyone goes "hmm, all this "special one off bike for P-R" is actually a pile of rubbish.
You'd have thought that Sky / Pinarello might have learned their lesson about this by now, constantly banging on about marginal gains and then failing to win it.
This year: Gianni Moscon got 5th (out of 5 in the breakaway sprint...) but the next Sky rider was at 59th.
2016, they did a bit better with Ian Stannard in 3rd and Luke Rowe at 14th but even so, for all the hype about their suspension bike being super tech and custom made for cobbles, it must be a bit disheartening to see the race won on nothing more than a normal bike with slightly wider tyres.
Also, I wish Pinarello would come up with a name other than Dogma for their bikes.
CaptainFlashheart - Member
Discs are winning races already!
Have they won anything (World level) that wasn't a bunch sprint? (Sure they will have and I just wasn't paying attention)
Yer butttt
"Marketing Horsecrap" would be a pretty terrible name for a bike wouldn't it? And it's a bit long for the downtube, and think of the weight of the stickers..
Marginal gains, n'all.
Has anyone actually ridden a road bike with suspension?! That might be sensible before commenting on it (unlikely on here, I know, I know).
For what it's worth, I met a few people in France last week who were riding the new Roubaix and they all felt it was revolutionary. I also rode disc brakes up and down several col's and I entirely couldn't care less whether pro's are winning on disc bikes or not, the reduction in hand pump was worth any extra weight. Honestly, go and try these things.
Honestly, go and try these things.
New here? How could you give an honest opinion if you had actually tried something....
Ah, elastomers. I remember them - "It's a cold day today, so it'll be the stiff suspension..."
Wasn't it Magnus Backstedt who wore 2 chamy pads in P-R (there was obviously someone/many others too)
Just stick some skinny tyres on this, fill your eyes with vassoline and wear dayglo..
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I also rode disc brakes up and down several col's and I entirely couldn't care less whether pro's are winning on disc bikes or not, the reduction in hand pump was worth any extra weight. Honestly, go and try these things.
Disc brakes on road bikes are simply brilliant.
I've only had a very short ride on the new Roubaix with it's suspension stem arrangement but it didn't feel bad. No idea what it's like on a sustained cobbled course though.
I'm still amazed by the lack of take up of tubeless tyres at pro level. Especially on cobbled / gravelled roads it's far and away the easiest solution. Nice wide tyre, low pressure, virtually zero risk of punctures (unlike tubulars and standrad clinchers), better comfort.
Suspension keeps wheels in better contact with rough surfaces, more conact more grip, more grip more power down, more power down more race wins, maybe why Sky are testing. You can bet if they start winning races on them they'll be demand, even if nobody really needs it.
Colnago blew the need for road bike suspension years ago at Paris-Roubaix with their C40 in the early 90s when most other bike manufacturers were throwing big money into suspension - Duclos-Lasalle won on Rockshox the previous years but that was it. The simple evidence was suspension more likely to break and couldn't the same benefit simply be achieved with higher volume tyres at lower pressures? If the need for suspension can't be proven at P-Rx, by far harsher than any other road event, then any claims are marginal at best. More snake-oil from manufacturers keen to get people to buy soon-to-be-obsolete tech.
I've ridden bikes without brakes, utterly ridiculous.
Burn holes in old converse.
I'm still amazed by the lack of take up of tubeless tyres at pro level. Especially on cobbled / gravelled roads it's far and away the easiest solution. Nice wide tyre, low pressure, virtually zero risk of punctures (unlike tubulars and standrad clinchers), better comfort.
Pro beasts can still keep the hammer down (to a degree) and not really risk a deflated tub falling off the rim, tubes and tubeless would be a higher risk of stopping them dead which wouldn't be great in the middle of a cobble section when you know there's a guy handing out wheels at the end of it
On a road bike? WTF sort of brakes do you usually use? Or do you go down whole 20km descents pulling the brakes?the reduction in hand pump was worth any extra weight.
Disc brakes aren't winning races.
Pros are winning races on bikes that incidentally have disc brakes on them.
Than case (only WT case I'm aware of) is Marcel Kittel winning Bunch Sprints on a bike that Specialized pay loads for him to ride so people say 'Disc Brakes are already winning races'. A bunch sprint is something decided well within the final 2k if not 200m, and he's definitely not using his brakes for that. Irrelevant. Just happens to be the fastest sprinter.
Did he use it on the mountain days with big long descents, but where people wouldn't see him?
(Pic from Galibier day with regular rim braked bike).
Clearance for 28mm tyres on a fast top end roadbike is good though.
Mat Hayman who comes along and wins Paris-Roubaix on a bog standard aero road bike
Don't forget that Degenkolb won P-R on a Giant Defy SL that you couldn't buy in the shops because Giant had moved to discs that year.
And of course those sprint stages this year were won by Matthews on a regular TCR, not the Propel with discs.
Poor Giant.
I think that's mostly achievable with newer brake calipers anyway.Clearance for 28mm tyres on a fast top end roadbike is good though.
But yes, the increased clearance is one clear benefit.
Roll on someone making a full on light/stiff race bike with room for 32's + guards.
(Basically what cannondale just did for the 2018 synapse needs a supersix version!)
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*Tight lines....*
Usually the guy that wins a bike race is the one who stays off their brakes the most! Look at the grid of World Cup CX who've had access to discs for a few years and many are still running rim brakes.
^not read all that, but I remember reading something from one of the teams saying (small amounts of) rear suspension help.
I just don't understand who they think is going to buy a road bike with suspension.
Maybe a few people doing sportives in Roubaix or Belgium and taking it very seriously? Who actually rides on flipping cobbles otherwise?
The pros must roll their eyes when they see guff like this.
I just don't understand who they think is going to buy a road bike with suspension.
Go ride the route of this years Trossachs Ton sportive - then you'll understand! I heard that when Evans did back to back sportives in that area Sat/Sun earlier in the year they were forced to change the route for the 2nd day after getting too many complaints about the surface from the Saturday riders.
chakaping - Member
I just don't understand who they think is going to buy a road bike with suspension.
The same people who bought a Giant Propel (and then put a standard bottle, huge saddle bag, lights and computer on it, negating any aero benefits they might have had. 😉 )
Colnago blew the need for road bike suspension years ago at Paris-Roubaix with their C40 in the early 90s when most other bike manufacturers were throwing big money into suspension - Duclos-Lasalle won on Rockshox the previous years but that was it. The simple evidence was suspension more likely to break
I'm pretty sure suspension tech and reliability have come on somewhat in the intervening 25 year period.
I'm pretty sure suspension tech and reliability have come on somewhat in the intervening 25 year period.
Brakes, too.
Ah, elastomers. I remember them - "It's a cold day today, so it'll be the stiff suspension..
I knew someone who had a proflex and would microwave the rear elastomer in the winter which he reckoned helped.
Go ride the route of this years Trossachs Ton sportive - then you'll understand!
So a few people in the Trossachs as well then, maybe.
I scratch my head a bit when I see people saying their local roads are so bad they need massive tyres or whatever. We have some pretty crap roads round here and 25mm tyres seem fine to me.
I'd maybe want to go to 28mm if I was lucky enough to live in the North West Highlands, just as the roads seemed coarsely surfaced and rumbly.
Go ride the route of this years Trossachs Ton sportive - then you'll understand!
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This route? Can't think of any particularly bad roads there, certainly nothing that I'd ever swap my TCR for
Clearance to fit 28mm tyres? Like my 6 year old 6700 Ultegra rim brake calipers you mean?
Look at the grid of World Cup CX who've had access to discs for a few years and many are still running rim brakes.
At World Cup CX level, the riders have at least 3 (quite often up to 6) bikes and each bike will have at least 3 sets of wheels. In the early days of discs there was simply not enough kit to go round equipping every single bike nor was there a wide enough selection of wheels (deep section, shallow section etc) in disc version.
It was more a logistics issue than an "I don't want to use discs" issue.
What I don't understand is why no front suspension?
Also, didn't the UCI decide they didn't like non-traditional things like suspension on road bikes - have they changed their minds?
Nice wide tyre, low pressure, virtually zero risk of punctures (unlike tubulars and standrad clinchers), better comfort.
Wouldn't a road tubeless tyre have worse rolling resistance than an equivalently spendy clincher with latex tubes?
It's what put me off UST on the MTB, ghetto tubeless with standard tyres felt like it rode better than the UST version of the same tyre.
Re: Trossachs Ton, some of the route west of Aberfoyle is a bit broken up, I seem to remember.
This route? Can't think of any particularly bad roads there, certainly nothing that I'd ever swap my TCR for
Slightly different this year, and maybe we have vastly different ideas of bad roads, but if I were to ride it again i'd put slicks on my HT, and my riding partner basically hated it and probably wouldn't go back (he was a bit tense and got beaten up repeatedly rather than letting the bike move under him).
[i]Edit: Yes i'd be slightly slower on a slicked up HT, but it'd have been MUCH more enjoyable, hardly got to look at the scenery as I spent most of it trying to pick the cleanest lines between the craters and rubble.[/i]
Wouldn't a road tubeless tyre have worse rolling resistance than an equivalently spendy clincher with latex tubes?
Nope. Tubeless ready with sealant faster (and I don't think anyone makes full UST road tyres.).
Tubular has other advantages and sits around the same place as tubeless.
Think Froomies flailing octopus images and this bike in the same frame.
Look the same ?Ok, squint a bit and the tap your left hand on the back of your head repeatedly for .. ohh hang on, turns page over... it says 11mins but you need to also stand under an Alp in Winter.
Now do you see the similarities?
I have absolutely no idea what this means.
Re: bouncy bits on road bikes, the Trek Domane sells by the bucketload. People will buy this because it's a gadget, and an expensive one.
Nope. Tubeless ready with sealant faster (and I don't think anyone makes full UST road tyres.).
Ah OK, had assumed extra UST layers across whole carcass of tyre.
Cool.
I guessed you wouldn't.
philjunior - Memberand I don't think anyone makes full UST road tyres
Mavic do, with more to come iirc. UST is a Mavic thing though so not really a surprise (although they are making a LOT of claims about UST being by far the best setup for road tubeless so far)
https://shop.mavic.com/en-gb/yksion-pro-ust-c6967.html#1028=3395
Hmmm, interesting Legend, I may have to consider Mavic for my next set of commuter wheels - I think I'd trust a road tubeless system that was 100% from one (reputable) brand. But I digest.
Computer controlled shock does seem a bit OTT for a road bike when an on off button would do the job. And I still wonder why no suspension forks.
If you google Mavic UST you'll see all the usual sites doing articles on the new stuff. Here's one to start with though: http://road.cc/content/tech-news/224595-mavic-introduces-road-ust-tubeless-system-covering-huge-section-wheel-range
Did he use it on the mountain days with big long descents, but where people wouldn't see him?
Nah, he used the rim braked bike to make it lighter so he could get over the moutains. In the dry. 8)
Nah, he used the rim braked bike to make it lighter so he could get over the moutains. In the dry.
And where the extra rim rub from sprinting wouldn't be an issue.
Fifeandy, getting slow enough in the switchbacks in the rain, i would be sore way before the bottom. With discs I can just brake much latter with so much more modulation. I feel this makes me both caster and safer.
I think the roads anywhere in the UK would benefit from suspension!
On the P-R thing although cobbles are what the race is famous for it 'only' has ~58 km of cobbles out of a total distance of 254 km (2015 race route). So any bike has to ride well on the tarmac, as it makes up over 3/4 of the race distance.
Why do pinarello continue to flog this horse?
Because Alan Sugar.
Not him specifically, but everything he is.
Old.
Rich.
Wants an expensive bike, and everyone (even non cyclists) to know it.
Can't hack a proper race bike anymore.
Wants what the pros have.
Just going to say that I don't really have any issues with Pinarello, in fact I appreciate some of their work
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Do you ride in stilettos Legend?
SPD stilletos thankyouverymuch