[Closed] Weightlifting and cycling

The problem is, I feel that the training has very much hindered my cycling. In particular it feels as though squatting has significantly altered my leg stamina; my legs 'pump up' very quickly when hitting a climb - even climbing the stairs can trigger a feeling of fatigue in my quads.

All about fast / slow twitch muscle dominance.

I've been using the Stronglifts programme as a basis for quite a while now. Its hard to fully follow it in my gym as I'd be hogging the one power rack thing so have adjusted it a bit, one thing I have done is drop the squats, not totally but not every session and I change it up a bit with goblets and front. I've found its helped my biking markedly.

5x5 is a good programme for gaining strength, but squatting 3 times a week is a lot if you are throwing some cycling in as well, your legs will be in virtually constant recovery from all that squating.

If you have made decent gains on 5x5 in the 6 months that you have been doing it, I would just start doing all 5 exercises in one gym session per week. And do something more dynamic in another session (ie more mobility work). That would be more compatible with mainly cycling.

Hi I think it's a big can of worms and it's quite personal . I do a upper lower split in the gym now, two days a week, having changed from 4 days a week isolation . This fits very well cycle training 4 days a week , plus yoga and a rest day . I expect I'll change again come spring . Sounds like you are listening to your body, a good thing.

Edit: I also fit in one press ups pull ups day, same day as a smaller ride .

Stronglifts are great for getting you strong. They aren't necessarily transferable to the the type of loading that your body would get during cycling.

You might want to increase/include some interval training, dumbbell circuits, barbell complexes and some more endurance workouts into the mix along with your strength work.

2000m row for time is good fitness test. Tailpipe (google it) will also test your resolve.

Bear in mind that Stronglifts certainly isn't designed to improve cycling performance, so don't expect that, though it can help.
Have a look at this for something that will actually help, but really you need to combine strength training with on bike sessions to get the most benefit.

http://bikemagic.com/how-to/no-more-weakly-warriors-stronger.html#xw88l7ZREa27terX.97

I've found that deadlifting is far more beneficial to mtbing than squatting, as it works the same muscles that you use when out the saddle (the important bit), be it climbing or descending. This is a rough guide of the plan for enduro racing that my coach gave me. There's also a focus on some shoulder stuff after an injury, to prevent anymore problems. This is just the strength training. This gets done 2-3 times a week, on top of the bike sessions, but the strength work isn't done so hard that I can't complete the on bike sessions.

In depth warm up- mobility and getting blood flowing (pdf in that link is great)
3x5 deadlift or back squat (I alternate, but enjoy deadlifting more)
3x5 bench press
3x5 barbell row
3x5 overhead press
Chin ups/pull ups
Rotator cuff exercises
Core exercises (plank variations, body saw, etc)

Edit- There are quite a lot of similarities between Stronglifts and that to be fair, but the deadlift really is more useful than squats for mtb.

My sessions are thrice weekly. One day squats, one day deadlifts, one day upper body.

I would struggle to cycle well if it was three squat sessions. I also keep the squat session away from the biking days as much as possible. Also vary the squats from week to week. Tonight was anderson squats for example which is much more explosive than normal

Guys - thanks there's some great advice here.

I think several statements ring true - stronglift training isn't bike specific (I just didn't realise how detrimental to cycling it would be for me), I am probably pushing too hard too many times per week and therefore 'overtraining' when riding is taken into account.

I didn't want to do specific strength training for cycling - it was more about being stronger for general life, but following a regime that is bike friendly is obvious when you think of it. I like getonyourbike's workout and I think I'll develop a 2/3 weekly workout that skips squatting (or when squatting lighten the weight and up the reps)

Thanks all!

If you've made good gains with the strong lifts programme over 6 months I'd look to change your routine. Training works best when periodised.
Use the winter / off season to build strength (as you've done) then as summer approaches maybe reduce your frequency to two gym workouts a week with a routine that complements cycling better than strong lifts - getonyourbikes example looks really good imo.
I know if I do heavy squats within three days of a ride my performance on the bike suffers.
I wouldn't completley avoid lower body workouts, just reduce the volume, frequency and intensity - I suppose I'm saying look to maintain your gains as apposed to keep trying to lift bigger numbers.

Getonyourbike what sort of weights are you doing your sets with?
I've gone wayyyy too far towards weightlifting and my biking has really suffered.
Can pick up heavy things but not ride a bike for more than about 10 miles without cramp

what sort of weights are you doing your sets with?

For me

Deadlifts - 5 x 8 @ 120kg
Squats - 5 x 8 @ 90kg
Chest press - 5 x 8 @ 60kg

3x5 deadlift or back squat (I alternate, but enjoy deadlifting more) 95kg deadlift, 70kg back squat
3x5 bench press: 57.5kg
3x5 barbell row: haven't tried yet, recent addition and shoulder op 4 weeks ago
3x5 overhead press: same again
Chin ups/pull ups: 3 sets of 8-12 reps
Rotator cuff exercises: 2x15 at 14-7kg cable pull
Core exercises (plank variations, body saw, etc)

I'm 77kg and 188cm/6ft 2", to put that into perspective for the chin ups/pull ups and my build. I'm certainly not lifting heavy, by any means, but I'm built more like an XC whippet than anything else. Endurance is no problem on the bike at all. Just need to build strength and power.

I did Stronglifts and it was superb, I am built for lifting so got a 237.5kg dead and 202.5kg squat, but I found its either lifting (seriously)or cycling. Squatting three times a week meant my legs were permanently recovering.

I had a few years off lifting, and coincidentally just started again this week. I'm aiming to get up to maybe 75% of where I was before, then back off to lifting 2 times a week, so I can cycle without too much drama. 5x5 would be boring without the week on week increase in weight, so I'll make it a more intense work out, maybe supersetting deads and presses, squats and curls, etc.mto keep it interesting.

P.s. Arm pump is a thing of the past after lifting weights. I keep going at Antur after my mates had given up moaning about their arms and grip.

Have a look at the Candito 6 week strength program (not the linear one), far more inspiring than Stronglifts as each week is different and you only squat twice a week.

+ 1 for Candito - even if you don't follow his plan check out his form on the big lifts - he's as good as it gets and he explains things really well. I've learnt quite a bit from his vids

If you don't mind making slower progress I would take a look at Wendler's 531.

https://www.t-nation.com/workouts/531-how-to-build-pure-strength

I do the 'I'm Not Doing Jack Shit' assistance program. Saying that, I do pull ups on the overhead press day. Also, I don't do bench press so my weight training involves three sessions a week, each one lasting less than 30 minutes including warm ups.

The thing that I really like is that it's based around the idea that you should be able to do it even if you're completely knackered. If you feel in good shape then you can do a lot more than the baseline.

The most difficult part is accepting that you're going to make very slow progress. However, it's important to focus on long term goals rather than increasing every week.

It should be possible to combine this with a lot of cycling.

Here's some of my typical routines over the last few weeks. Weight will change with reps, sets and exercise variation

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

Parts C & D of boardin bobs' second shot would do more for your cycling than the rest of it would. I love lifting weights, being big and strong is great. But, if I were training for improvements in cycling, I'd step away from the 5-10 rep range and ratchet the intensity right up. Minimal rest between work sets, and going for work rather than tension. You should be able to do a lot with a pull up bar, oly rings and a kettlebell or two.

Parts C & D of boardin bobs' second shot would do more for your cycling than the rest of it would

Yeah my coach splits it into a big compound intro then some "gassy" stuff as he calls it

Part D looks right up my alley!

I hope I'm not being contrary, but I've got a general question on weightlifting for cycling. apart from the arm pump thing already mentioned (which is already pretty good, what are the expected benefits?

Leg strength, yes, but how often do you run out of strength when riding? Isn't it more common to run out of steam?
Can weightlifting help with core strength on the bike?

Depends on the type of cycling and the type of weightlifting!
At the extremes; Hoy lifted hugely heavy weights. Froome, not so much.
Most movement based exercise done properly will increase core strength.

I'd ditch the weights entirely and try circuits, Kettlecise, Insanity etc if you're after general conditioning that won't hinder your cycling, promotes flexibility and helps with cardio.

BillOddie - Member
Tailpipe (google it) will also test your resolve.

[img] [/img]

Cool, cheers.

The problem is, I feel that the training has very much hindered my cycling. In particular it feels as though squatting has significantly altered my leg stamina; my legs 'pump up' very quickly when hitting a climb - even climbing the stairs can trigger a feeling of fatigue in my quads.

Alternatively could the muscles just be tight? Have you been stretching, rollering, etc? When I started weight training I neglected stretching and acquired loads of knots in my muscles, plus often they'd feel very tight. Sorted it out with a monthly sports massage for about 6 months, now I do yoga most days & don't have the problem.

I'd agree that it's difficult to do a lot of cycling & weight training at the same time. I tend to hit the weights quite hard in the winter and take it very easy when out on the bike, then in the spring/summer when I'm riding a lot harder back the weights off to a maintenance level (i.e. not really looking to make gains).

I hope I'm not being contrary, but I've got a general question on weightlifting for cycling. apart from the arm pump thing already mentioned (which is already pretty good, what are the expected benefits?

An interesting paper about strength training for gymnasts:

I think for almost all sports (with the exception of sports where having extra bulk is an advantage) the goal of strength training should be to increase strength with the minimum size increase.

Training with heavy weights is pretty much the only way to reduce the deficit between the how much force your muscles can [i]potentially[/i] generate and how much they can [i]actually[/i] generate imo.

http://outdoorfitnessmag.com/cycle-power-chris-hoys-top-5-exercises/

http://www.redbull.com/uk/en/bike/stories/1331771617468/rachel-atherton-shares-her-top-tips

http://www.redbull.com/uk/en/bike/stories/1331663867153/the-athertons-top-10-riding-tips

https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/knowledge/article/izn20130617-Busting-The-Core-Myth-0

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/how-to-strength-train-for-cycling.html

http://breakingmuscle.com/cycling/why-serious-cyclists-should-consider-strength-training

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_Ab-PUSiOg

Are you sure this isn't just because your legs haven't recovered sufficiently in between lifting and cycling?

Yes, I think you may be right, although I seem to have been getting stronger quickly on the stronglift programme, building each time with no obvious issue with recovery since the last session, the impact on cycling seems to last over a week after my last session. Edit: In fact, I think it lasts longer than this - it may be that because my legs have been fatigued I've not done as many miles so the endurance side of my fitness has dropped away? The reason I asked the question originally is that I can't believe that the composition of my muscles has changed fundamentally in 6 months (as you point out). I think it means the only explanation is lack of recovery.

Macavity - thanks, I think you posted many of those articles before. The problem for me is that they are about training [i]to improve[/i] cycling whereas (right or wrong?) I wish to train for general strength in a way that [i]doesn't hinder[/i] cycling.

Are you doing a good stretching and foam rolling routine? Helps my recovery massively

Chris Hoy still seems to be able to ride a bike up hills

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/video/2014/jul/02/chris-hoy-tour-de-france-grand-depart-yorkshire

even after
https://roadcyclinguk.com/blogs/georges-blog/weight-training-cycling-sir-chris-hoy-olympics-london-2012.html#00cosROlGxkXmhTS.97

http://www.mensfitness.com/training/endurance/train-like-an-olympic-track-cyclist?page=2

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2009/jan/11/cycling-strength-training

http://www.bikejames.com/strength/one-exercise-to-rule-them-all/

http://breakingmuscle.com/cycling/cycling-might-be-bad-for-bone-health

http://www.joefrielsblog.com/2011/03/bones-and-cyclists.html%20

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/story/0,3604,380917,00.html

http://fitness.mercola.com/sites/fitness/archive/2010/07/27/the-growing-promise-of-shorter-more-intense-strength-training-workouts.aspx

http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/health-fitness/mens-health/6-ways-to-increase-testosterone-with-exercise

FWIW I tried Stronglifts for a few months but found the sheer volume of squats to be too much considering I cycle most days. Went back to Starting Strength (3x5 rather than 5x5) which I do 2 or 3 times a week. Don't be afraid to have an easy week as well once in a while to give your body a break!

Brilliant links Macavity.

Too many people hear weightlifting and immediately think

[img] [/img]

Instead of

[img] [/img]

Which workout did you end up switching to BlobOnAStick? And has it worked for you? I've got the same issue with Stronglifts.

Interested to read this thread. I've been cycling and gym-ing off and on for years, but with no real structure. Signed up for the Tweedlove Enduro this summer so thought I'd try and take it all a little more seriously. Have added a couple of 45 minute spin or watt bike classes to my week and now last week have added a short session of weights to the end of each class - 5 x 5 deadlifts and squats on one day and bench press, dips and pull ups on the other.

Is this going to benefit me much? I've noticed my cycling has improved with the spin classes, have much more power on the hills and generally feel faster on the bike - is this small amount of weights (which I can certainly feel the next day) going to help without hindering?

Sorry for the thread hijack!

https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/knowledge/article/izn20130115-All-Cycling-Cross-Training-0

So long as the training load isn't so great that you end up over training, they'll really help.

never saw this the first time round.

I've followed strong lifts twice now. (had a long pause between).

The first time i was doing intervals on the turbo as well. The second time the intervals always got dropped due to time, or needing recovery.

I was crap on the bike second time round. I think the leg/ core strength is great but you need to get in the cycling to transfer it across.

Had a decent chat with Gee Atherton regarding this a while back. He reckoned it was impossible to compete consistently without gym work and he was spending as much quality time in the gym as he was on the bike.

http://breakingmuscle.com/cycling/off-season-strength-training-for-cyclists-a-well-planned-transition-phase

https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/knowledge/bike-kit/article/izn20160113-Ask-the-experts-How-to--Beginner-strength-exercises-for-cyclists-0

https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/knowledge/training/off-the-bike

I have been following strong lifts since Christmas, didn't start with the empty bar, but didn't start too heavy either, also only been doing it twice a week instead of 3 times. I have now already got to a stage where the squats twice a week are leaving me in a bad state for cycling.

I think I am going to change it round and replace squats with cleans, which I see as being more dynamic and compatible with mountain biking, and make it a full series of dead lifts rather than a single set.

Does anybody know of any good apps that work like the strong lifts 5x5 one, but allow more customisation of your workout? As someone who is just looking at hitting the gym twice a week for around 1/2 an hour a time to support mountain biking, I probably found the app the best thing about the 5x5 program.

MSP - Member
I have been following strong lifts since Christmas, didn't start with the empty bar, but didn't start too heavy either, also only been doing it twice a week instead of 3 times. I have now already got to a stage where the squats twice a week are leaving me in a bad state for cycling.

I think I am going to change it round and replace squats with cleans, which I see as being more dynamic and compatible with mountain biking, and make it a full series of dead lifts rather than a single set.

Does anybody know of any good apps that work like the strong lifts 5x5 one, but allow more customisation of your workout? As someone who is just looking at hitting the gym twice a week for around 1/2 an hour a time to support mountain biking, I probably found the app the best thing about the 5x5 program.

MSP - Member

I have been following strong lifts since Christmas, didn't start with the empty bar, but didn't start too heavy either, also only been doing it twice a week instead of 3 times. I have now already got to a stage where the squats twice a week are leaving me in a bad state for cycling.

I think I am going to change it round and replace squats with cleans, which I see as being more dynamic and compatible with mountain biking, and make it a full series of dead lifts rather than a single set.

Does anybody know of any good apps that work like the strong lifts 5x5 one, but allow more customisation of your workout? As someone who is just looking at hitting the gym twice a week for around 1/2 an hour a time to support mountain biking, I probably found the app the best thing about the 5x5 program.

JEFIT is a pretty good app for that.

Well, what I did was continue to follow the stronglifts programme, but swapped Deadlifting and Squatting around so I deadlifted every workout and squatted for a single set every other session. It worked great, in that I didn't have knackered quads for cycling.

During an uplift session at BPW was the first time I've actually felt the benefit of the gym work I've been doing, which I put down to the deadlifting.

From now though I'm gearing up to follow getonyourbike's workout that he listed up there^^ as I'm going to be stepping up the cycling for the summer and need a workout that covers the full body in a single session in case I end up only doing once a week.

BlobOnAStick - Member
From now though I'm gearing up to follow getonyourbike's workout that he listed up there^^ as I'm going to be stepping up the cycling for the summer and need a workout that covers the full body in a single session in case I end up only doing once a week.

I'm going to start your workout getonyourbike, how often do you do it? I'm thinking of doing it twice a week.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/juliewilcox/2012/05/31/health-benefits-weightlifting/#3108eefb4d20

craig24 - Member
I'm going to start your workout getonyourbike, how often do you do it? I'm thinking of doing it twice a week.

I am going for a twice a week workout.

workout 1 - cleans, bench press, bent over row.
workout 2 - deadlifts, shoulder press, pulldowns.

Going to stick to 5x5 sets for now, just done the 1st workout at lunchtime, think its going to take a few weeks or more just to get the technique right for the cleans.

Sorry to dig up an old thread but I was wondering if anyone had followed getonyourbike's workout and how you had got on?

Hi,

Yep I'd forgotten about this thread and had to scroll back to re-read Getonyourbike's workout but apart from the rotator cuff bit I've pretty much been following it, although I've taken some advice from one of Macavity's links and gone to 3x8 on all exercises.

I virtually stopped lifting during the summer (I don't think I stepped foot in the gym in August at all) due to a combination of ramping up the riding and work pressures. However I started again in September at about 75% of the weight that I'd been doing in the spring.

I follow the principal set out in the StrongLifts programme where if I achieve all 3 set and 8 reps then the weight goes up by 2.5kg for the next workout. I'm now on about 115kg deadlift, 95kg squat, 45kg shoulder press, 70kg bench, 70kg barbell row. Plenty of room to improve the weight on deadlift and squat, but getting to a bit of a ceiling with the other exercises.

If you're going to follow the routine then my advice would be to have an A and B routine (one starting squat, one deadlift) and to mix the order of the other exercises; even though they are the same, the order you do them in can make a difference to progress.

Hope that helps.

Didnt follow exaclty that workout, but tried similar a few years back. I found the squatting compromised my riding too much. I've seen better results with on the bike big gear work.

Not against trying it again in the future though, particularly if my focus shifts to shorter more explosive events rather than endurance.

The simple approach is to just do a minimum of 3 x 20 reps per exercise and don't add any weight unless you can do more than 20 reps at 70% effort. This way you keep your endurance whilst improving your strength.

Any strength and conditioning incorporated into a 'training program' ultimately depends on the individuals goals at the culmination of your program. As an ex elite level rugby player, I had a lot of access to coaches and served my time in the weight room. My S+C coach repeatedly stressed that without a goal at the end to aim for its all for nothing as its a great motivational tool and gives you the building blocks for your exercises / rep range / drills etc. Figure out your races, workout what kind of rider you need to be for those events then build your gym program from there. No point squatting heavy and low reps if your a cross country racer and need to be light etc.

In my experience the weight room was seasonal, off-season and pre season very much in the gym (i guess autumn winter for mtb). In - season, more maintenance / imbalance correction as all the ground work was done pre-season (i guess spring summer for mtb)

I'm retired from rugby, and dropped the size, but still dabble in the weight room to help with power and rate of force application through the pedal as its been such a big part of my life, I would find it hard not too. I race enduro, and as the majority of races, you just have to get to the top of the hill then into a more interval based, sharp bursts of power stage, i find exercises to increase that benefit most, like clean variations, snatch, along with your standard compound lifts, incorporated with some plyometrics /mobilty routine.

Make sure you get a coach or at least advice if your going to lift, as poor form is dangerous and will offset any work you do.

Nathan Haas says
http://www.menshealth.co.uk/fitness/how-to-build-your-body-like-a-professional-road-cyclist

I did some dead lifts for the first time in about 20 years last Wednesday.
Can anyone give me a rough estimate of when in the distant future the pain will stop and I'll be able to walk normally again or touch my toes?

4 to 7 days colp. Embrace the DOMS.

When I was more into powerlifting than cycling the weights room in my gym was upstairs. I spent many an evening walking backwards down the stairs after going for a PB deadlift, then being unable to walk properly the next day. Happy times.

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/assess-your-season-rest-and-cross-train-dee-tidwell-2016.html

If you are starting out with deadlifing then i thoroughly recommend looking at some mark rippletoe videos or buying his book.

It so easy to get the technique wrong and i've seen a lot of instructional videos that are wrong (
[url= http://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/article/heavy-lifting-for-the-endurance-athlete-part-1-learning-the-7-key-exercises ]including training peaks (hips are far too low) [/url]

Thanks for the video link, yep, I had a nasty technique!
Good news is that 5 days later, I've stopped walking like John Travolta

Deadlifting with Brian Shaw.
He talks a lot but he is the worlds strongest man so he is allowed to.