[Closed] PSA 'Bargain' Hope HB160

Looks like Hope have seen sense and dropped the price from 7.5. I'll take two 🙂

Looks like they're looking after those who've already purchased as well:

Swinnerton Cycles - In fairness to Hope they've re evaluated there pricing, and have contacted suppliers requesting the details of any customer who’s purchased a HB160 so the can personally refund the difference in price

you can buy a car for that

Great. Which trails can you ride that car down?

Fair play to hope for refunding folk who’d paid the higher price too

Wow, the retrospective refund is quite impressive.

or a Santa cruz

or a Santa cruz

Makes you think why they dropped the price. Not selling as well as they'ed "hoped" or are the manufacturing costs are much lower now?

Apparently there will be an official press release next week from Hope about the pricing and why it's changed.
Looking online pretty much everywhere has them still at £7.5k.

£7.5k!?!? How do they come up with this pricing!? You can get a spanking new, road registered KTM 350 enduro bike with top spec for that. And it’ll do all the hard work.

£7.5k!?!? How do they come up with this pricing!? You can get a spanking new, road registered KTM 350 enduro bike with top spec for that. And it’ll do all the hard work.

Relatively small company doing all the Design, testing, build etc in the UK with a relatively small production run. Not hard to see how the costs can add up.

Looking at what's being said elsewhere about the sustainability of carbon, I can imagine it costs Hope a pretty penny to do it ethically.

Relatively small company doing all the Design, testing, build etc in the UK with a relatively small production run. Not hard to see how the costs can add up.

Compared to a relatively small (in its industry) company doing all the design, testing, build, etc in Austria with a relatively small production run? What’s specialized’s excuse? I can’t see how a price tag like that can be justified.

So don’t pay it then?

Top idea

Wow, the retrospective refund is quite impressive

+1 it’s good they’re doing that.

There were two lads out riding with me today on HB160s, nearly as common as Santa Cruz bikes are

TBH lucky I’m doing more road than mountain as I’d probably be haggling over one now.

Don’t get me wrong 5k is nothing to be sniffed as they’re doing the carbon in house so it’s not going to be cheap and it’s dripping in Hope bits.

Go on then own up who’s checked out the finance on one of these 🙂

Very cool of them to give the refund tbh, especially since early adopters had to know there was a pretty good chance the price would crash

The true cost of building the bike from scratch was close to 1/2 million quid, That was to build their own bike all built in house with the exception of the dampening. At7.5k it was close to dream builds.. With the retrospective price decrease to a mere 5.5k it puts it in totally different price bracket.

Rs orange five give or take 5.3k
Whyte s150 works 5.4k

Hope hb160 with all the parts you would need to add to the above 5.5k

Sorry this is now a game changer for me.. Well played Hope

How long do i wait until its about 1.5k? Hasn't taken long to drop 2k

£7.5k IS a ridiculous price for a pedal powered bike, no question.

That said, also pretty sure the 'reason' for the refund is due to Hope not wanting people to buy the bike then sell it for a profit immediately. Happens frequently in the car world. That plus it was also overpriced in the first place.

Hadn’t considered that. Pretty clever thing to do IMO

No British cycling discount on it either 🙁

Just need to update the geometry then I might be interested.

Apart from the SRAM gears, it's almost a dream build. I've mentioned it to the wife, but it's still a no for now, but with luck they'll do a frame, hub, caliper option in the future, and I'll have an option to replace the Spitfire.

I reckon that, for me, the geometry would be pretty much spot on. All depends what you do.....

I've mentioned it to the wife, but it's still a no for now,

Unfortunately mine was next to the ipad which was charging when the FB Message of cant do BC Discount decided to show up 🙁

Anyway always remember

It's easier to ask forgiveness than it is to get permission

and hanging towels on it seems to work.

Could it be that they underestimated the sales so the tooling and development costs are now spread out over more bikes and they are passing that back to ALL the customers rather than just the new ones? If they had just discounted it now then they may well have put off the off the original buyers who were early adopters and probably more likely to buy their stuff in future from investing in their products in future.

Well played Hope.

Who did you ask about BC discount?

Apart from the SRAM gears, it's almost a dream build. I've mentioned it to the wife, but it's still a no for now, but with luck they'll do a frame, hub, caliper option in the future, and I'll have an option to replace the Spitfire.

I'll happily swap you the SRAM drivetrain for a brand new 11 speed XTR shifter and XT RD if you like? Shifter even has the Hope adapter for Tech 3 brakes.

If the wife tuts and says its up to you .. is that a yes or a warning ?

Who did you ask about BC discount?

Peeps in the linky so it was Swinnerton Cycles on Cannock Chase.

Via FB messenger .

TBH I wasn't expecting anything thou but 0% finance an a bit disquento Id be very tempted:-)

If the wife tuts and says its up to you .. is that a yes or a warning ?

In my experience its a ploy to confuse you so always take it as a yes.

If the wife tuts and says its up to you .. is that a yes or a warning ?

That is a big fat "YES" in my book.

(but don't be surprised if she wants something expensive in the future)

I mean it's exclusive and looks alright, fair enough, but all of the proprietary bits and the already out of date geo for £5k? No thanks.

Out of date geometry...?! 😆

[img] [/img]

^^^ Yes

[img] [/img]

^^^ No

wife has already suggested I treat myself as I work hard for what I earn. I really like the idea of owning one of those. However, it would mean two very similar bikes so the sensible part of my brain is saying no.

Out of date geometry...?!

Depends on your frame of reference:

[img] [/img]

^^^Yes

[img] [/img]

^^^No

Yeah,i dont quite get the love for this bike.

Sure itll be quite exclusive,but a stack load of proprietry parts (much worse than specialized in this respect), quite dated geometry, its relatively heavy,and its still quite pricey,although a lot more competetive now.

I've worked in composites for about fifteen years or so and I can't believe how cheap they are doing it for. You just can't compare it to mass produced brands like Santa Cruz or whoever. It's the production processes and quality control that is the major cost along with skilled, educated labour.

Could it be that they underestimated the sales so the tooling and development costs are now spread out over more bikes and they are passing that back to ALL the customers rather than just the new ones? If they had just discounted it now then they may well have put off the off the original buyers who were early adopters and probably more likely to buy their stuff in future from investing in their products in future.

Well played Hope.

I really hope this is right, for all that the geometry is undoubtedly conservative (/dated), I really admire Hope for investing the massive amount of time and money that it must have taken to get this bike to market.

Isn't it only the rear hub and caliper (poss BB/crank axle length) that are Hope proprietary? Geo isn't too different to a 2016MY Spitfire, probably lighter by miles and the new price isn't too far off of a mediocre Santa Cruz/Evil/Yeti/Pivot/Intense etc.

andyl - Member
"If the wife tuts and says its up to you .. is that a yes or a warning ?
That is a big fat "YES" in my book.

(but don't be surprised if she wants something expensive in the future)"

She just has ... Towbar and Thule rack for her car ...

At that price I would be tempted to cash all my other bikes in if they made it a bit longer.

There’s very little wrong with the geometry that wouldn’t be helped by chopping 50-75mm off all the seat tube towers, renaming the current sizes XS, S and M, and adding some larger sizes.

I think £5500 for a European made composite bike is incredible. Look at the prices for Unno, Antidote, Robotbike and Arbr - almost as much for just a frame.

I've worked in composites for about fifteen years or so and I can't believe how cheap they are doing it for. You just can't compare it to mass produced brands like Santa Cruz or whoever. It's the production processes and quality control that is the major cost along with skilled, educated labour.

Yep... the weaves visible as well so even more production hassle, no filling and painting and its done over here.

She just has ... Towbar and Thule rack for her car ...

That's bike transporting stuff though so doesnt count. Now she can act as an uplift service for you and your HB160 😉

The proprietary stuff doesnt bother me. Most of the time you upgrade TO Hope stuff so having it all on there already means no upgrading so who gives a monkeys and if anything does need replacing Hope are not going to let you down. They make it all in house and have a long history of supporting older components.

The rear end is fantastic. Because Hope make the swingarm, hub, rotor and caliper, there's no adjustment to worry about. The caliper just bolts down in one position, the right one.

I see proprietary kit here as an advantage, but as planned obsolescence on a specialized.

Thats the way I look at it , most of the time , parts get swapped out with Hope over time , why not just start with that from the beginning ..

Would be interested in seeing what bearings and warranty the frame has ?

I'd love that klein 🙂

stevedoc - Member

Thats the way I look at it , most of the time , parts get swapped out with Hope over time , why not just start with that from the beginning ..

Wouldn't want to downgrade anything on my bike to Hope tbh 😆

Beautiful looking Bike and the reduction in price ( and hope activley reducing it for those who have already bought one ) is amazing I think.

I do wish it was a bit longer reach wise though, it’s a lot shorter than my current bike.

Still no bottle mount for a 5k bike. (But i admit some dont mind that missing).

Looked at the one at 18 bikes. Look nice but 5k is still a lot for a bike for me.

I'm sure there is a carbon fiber producer in notts (toray?) Hope are handy with a cnc so moulds shouldn't be to hard, the only development/ dificuly i can find is lay up blue printing & testing to make consistant and how to make the bladders. Plus auto clave costs (but i dont see many bikes needing autoclave as such more oven with pressurised bladders in a steel mould.

I think its a cool bike for the money (now). Jeez if I could make a carbon frame with that kit for 5K in the UK I would be all over it. Just need a massive factory full of CNC machines and £500k spare first. Geo is personal, for some it will be bang on. The proprietary stuff? I guess Hope have the rep for long term support so if you want the bike its probably no big deal.

The value is amazing considering all the parts at the cheapest you can find them for non-trade, let alone full RRP. What are top of the line 36's and X2's - £900 & £600?

Even at £5.5k it's cheaper than the top 3 most expensive Bronson builds on the SC website, and only the top one comes with Kashima as standard.

I think if the geo was a bit longer with shorter seat tubes itd sell like hotcakes .

I guess thinking about it rationally it is now good value,even if still a lot of money, and the proprietary bits are mostly not the sort of thing you would upgrade at a later date - With the notable exception of the brakes , i can see being locked into hope brakes as a big problem for some.

For me its mostly the geo that is the issue.

Good on hope for doing it though, i hope they do a longrr/Lower version in tbe futurr

They do ride beautifully. Though I didn't spend along time on it

Geo wise I'd say it's a bit conservative but it means it's going to be spot on for less than mega death GNAR trails

Some crazy machining work goes into it. You can see how it might end up on the spendy side... 😯

At £5.5k it's a good deal now, it's just a shame it's got the wrong wheel size. Only thing I'd want to do is put different rims on.

The geometry isn't that far off for me as a do everything bike.

There’s very little wrong with the geometry

Not everybody wants a barge, current trend doesn't mean it's correct

no front mech?

Hammerschmidt.

They do look really nice and I admire Hope for doing it all in the UK. If only the seat tube lengths were shorter and reach was a bit longer, the medium has a seat tube length of most brands size large and a reach measurement of most brands small.

From what I have read in a trade mag Hope are selling the bikes as quickly as they can make them at the moment - Maybe the dealers are bugging them for bikes and they cant deliver so they are increasing production capability, the article did also say how they are planning to build more space and that they have spent 1.5mil per year for the last few years on new machinery - Hope sound like they are flying.

I did read the 1/2 a mill figure quoted for frame development but remember they have probably received a 150% tax reduction on this amount as there is currently an R&D tax incentive for manufacturers developing new in-house techniques they cannot easily obtain elsewhere / buy off the shelf, an in-house UK carbon frame development fits into that quite nicely.

It works out about 25p in the £ I think on average (Having done a few previously), so still a fair chunk of outlay, and thats only on what can be considered genuine R&D. Just making stuff that other people have made doesn't count in many cases even if its not readily available in the UK, and HMRC are fairly hot on it.

Looking at the geo & sizing the large is comparable to my large 2014 Mega TR - with the Hope being slightly slacker.

I stood in Swinnos last week contemplating one of these, beautiful in the flesh and you have to give kudos for the process they've taken in building it. For me I prefer the bigger wheels now however the Hope has so much going for it it's still in contention. Slash 9.9 or HB 160?

Huge drop in price and while I normally hate seeing proprietary parts on bikes it being Hope you know there won’t be any difficultly in getting replacements if you neeed them in future.

Orange 5 Formula: £6800.

😯 😆

Hope said:
"Hope’s first bike, the HB160 was successfully launched last August and received praise from all who rode it. An asking price of £7500 certainly put it into the Superbike category, but given the quality finish, attention to detail and uniqueness, it’s not unjustified. However this price didn’t really sit well with one of Hope’s founders, Ian Weatherill. He’s been quoted many times stating that UK manufacturing can easily compete in the global market, but initial pricing for the HB160 didn’t really reflect this.

Over the Christmas break Hope spent time reassessing their Carbon bike program and finding ways to bring a UK manufactured bike to the market at a more affordable price.
They have managed to recalculate the absorption of the R&D costs for their whole Carbon bike development program. This has enabled them to drop the retail price of their HB160 to £5500. They realise this is a major shift in pricing, but there will be no compromise in quality. The frames will still be meticulously manufactured in Barnoldswick by the same craftsmen."

So looks like it's a reevaluation of R&D costs and trying to make UK manufacturing competitive.
Well done Hope

Has anyone on here actually got one?

If they lengthen the top tube I will!

They have managed to recalculate the absorption of the R&D costs for their whole Carbon bike development program.

told ya 😉

julians - Member
i can see being locked into hope brakes as a big problem for some.

I expect if you're the type to be bothered by Hope brakes, you'll probably not be interested in the other Hope stuff on the bike and it won't appeal anyway.

I love the integration and some proper, better standards (radial caliper, a stiffer but narrower back end anyone?). I'll not be buying one but then I've just bought a forever bike and it's steel. I'd be very tempted by one of these even if the seat tube is a bit too long for my short legs really.

I'm really hoping the frame and bits will be available... The wife is not hoping they will be.

Well you are only locked into the rear brake. and even then you can probably get an adapter made up to make other brakes work.

And the rear hub, and the cassette, and the rear disc...

The geometry doesn’t put me off, the 650b wheelsize and the rear hub does.

I’m also not a fan of the aluminium girder rear triangle. If you’re going to do a Carbon bike, do a whole one, not just half of it.