[Closed] First FS ponderings...

I'd demo a giant anthem and a trance.

you know deep down that you need a specialized enduro 29er...... 😀

Wrecker and Ton have both made excellent suggestions!

I'd look at the Anthem SX if it was me.

Orange Segment?

Go for a mid travel 650B/29er, 100mm is really limiting your options, and modern suspension platforms are very good. Something like a codeine, HH thumper, canyon spectral.

My spectral 29er pedals exceptionally well, while its not as capable on big lumpy days as my SB66, it's a really good all rounder.

I take it you're selling one then Tony 🙂

I would prefer to build it up myself and I see that both the Giants and the Segment can be bought frame only so that's good.

What is considered mid travel then? Like I say, I don't want it to be made too easy (maybe that's an odd thing to say but I'm sure you'll know what I mean).

If the Heckler is only 100gm heavier then the SL shouldn't be much flexier, which I think is important (and stws resident riding god agrees).

Never ridden a current Heckler but found the 140mm one great for trails here to Alps type stuff. You still have to pick a line.

It doesn't get easier, you just get faster.

I don't think I want to ride round on a sofa, I want to still have to use some skill, pick a good line etc., and not just hold on and let the bike do everything

Firstly, stop thinking that this is what a F/S bike does - yes, it can do, but I ride a 6" FS everywhere. It makes annoying chattery trails smoother and can let you crash though stuff, BUT - it will let you hit more challenging terrain and pick lines you wouldn't normally take - oh and your normal lines, but faster. Faster is gooder!

It doesn't get easier, you just get faster.

But that means when I do crash I'll do more damage 🙂

The reason I mention the two giants (aside from them being excellent bikes) is demo-ing both will give you a very good idea of the type of FS that you want; a XC style bike or a slacker trail bike. IMHO you need to establish a preference in angles as FS geo is quite different to HT geo.
A yeti sb5 or SC 5010 could be good compromises if you are flush.

Firstly, stop thinking that this is what a F/S bike does - yes, it can do, but I ride a 6" FS everywhere. It makes annoying chattery trails smoother and can let you crash though stuff, BUT - it will let you hit more challenging terrain and pick lines you wouldn't normally take - oh and your normal lines, but faster. Faster is gooder!

Sure, not saying they make everything easy, but it was one of the things that was mentioned on my other thread, that's all.

And after you've done that a few times, you'll be a better rider!.

Nobeerinthefridge
It doesn't get easier, you just get faster.

Maybe not, but it does get more comfortable! 😉

Fair enough nobeer, you've got me there.

My HT is 67 (69 with sag) head angle, and I like that very much, so I guess that any/most of the shorter travel bikes will be a fair bit steeper.

Spectral (only using as an example cos I know the angles) has a head angle of 68. Allied to big wheel, it makes it slack enough to be fun. Salsa horsethief looks very good too.

Recently "gone back" to a FS after a few years rigid 29ering,
I can't recall going as quick the last time I was on a FS.
I'd say it's because bikes have moved on but its probably the one bike that most folk would say hadn't.

I like the kit on that Spectral.

What is it takisawa?

Filing Cabinet. 🙂

The first full sus you ride will be mind blowingly amazing, don't buy after the first test ride 😉

Try what you can there are some great bikes up at 130-150mm that are light, tough and fun to ride. The shorter travel bikes can end up coming with more XC geometry with steeper head angles etc. Don't pick or fixate on wheel size either try them with an open mind.

Filing Cabinet.

Good, one of them on the radar.

Cheers Mike, will do

SC Bronson (I have one for sale in classified...) TBH going down feels much the same as the Heckler, which is no bad thing, but climbs loads better

Mines all stripped down ready to sell, but starting to think I should hang on to it

It will depend really on what your current hardtail is. Once we have established that you will then have to ask yourself do you-

a) Want a bike that is very similar to it

Or

b) Want something different so you have bikes capable of a broader spectrum of riding.

I ride a Specialized Stumpjumper EVO and would complement it with a race hardtail.

For the sort of riding you are doing I personally would be looking at bikes in the 140mm range. Part of this is geometry - most bikes in that range will have geometry similar to your current bike, shorter travel bikes will be steeper.

I have ridden Laggan on everything from 160mm Oranges to a burly hardtail and a Giant Anthem. The Anthem is an excellent bike but unless you are a really good bike handler a real handful around Laggan Black. The SX may be suitable though.

I like my Stumpjumper as a lightweight jack of all trades bike but wouldn't buy one again. I would look at the Spectral 650, Giant Trance, Norco Sight- that sort of thing. The Spectral are very nice for the money and I suspect when I replace my Stumpjumper that will be what I get.

I think I know what you mean, you still want to be able to feel some of the trail features that you're used to on your hardtail. It's amazing how much faster you can go though, because the chatter doesn't slow you down so you look to pick your way through the medium bumps and negotiate the big ones instead of picking your way through the small bumps and negotiating the medium ones, if that makes sense.

140 (ish) mm travel bikes have come a long way in the last few years, they're fun and involving and to maintain speed you still need to pick your lines and work the trail. You can still feel the small bumps but they don't slow you down like they do on a hardtail but at the same time if you have the skills and confidence you can tackle some quite big jumps and drops etc.

I've just gone from a heckler to a camber evo, my heckler has 125mm rear and 150mm front and the camber evo has 120mm travel front and rear. Heckler 26" wheels, camber 29" wheels. The difference in travel terms is subtle because the bigger wheels roll easier over bumps but with 150mm forks up front the heckler definitely has the edge over very rough terrain. The camber is a much better pedaller though and flies up hills that the heckler struggled with....long road climbs become shorter and easier, but this is not just because it has less travel but it has a more sophisticated pivot (heckler is single pivot) and bigger wheels.

They are both wicked fun bikes. Compared to mine, the new heckler has more rear wheel travel and bigger wheels so I can only guess that it's a beast and both climbs and descends better that my 2003 version. But the camber evo is a different fish, it has enough travel to be both fun and involving, it loves rock gardens and is so lively and pops off of lips and drops and just pedals so much better, the big tyres just eat stuff for breakfast that my 26" heckler would need me to unweight to get over smoothly. The only think I can't do as easily on my evo that I can see is pick up the front end and put it down where I want it but that's definitely more to do with the fact that it's a 29er. So in that sense the heckler is more fun than the camber on super tight and technical trails. And I do sometimes miss the extra travel up front.

I honestly thought I'd sell my heckler straight away but I can't, it's too much fun and has too many good memories attached. Although I suspect you'd be more of a camber evo man?

I'm riding a Bird Zero at the moment. Its great, a lovely bike, but it is very stiff.

I guess it's that I don't want to sanitise the trails much, just maybe slightly reduce the battering I sometimes feel like I've had. I appreciate that to an extent these are contrary requirements, hence looking for a middle ground. I don't go in for all that 'skill compensator' looking down your nose at big bikes pish, not at all, but it's clear there are a fair number of people who try FS bikes with a fair bit of travel then find it makes everything a bit dull, and I fear that would be me as well if I wasn't careful. I don't have the time or resources to constantly buy/sell/swap bikes 🙂

Given where you ride you could!d easily own a 160mm bike and use it properly. You could start tackling some munros on it!

The obvious thing that springs to mind is a Bird Aeris given you have a Zero. Same designer, same target use, same attitude. And a frame is only £850.

As above it will only get faster, not easier. I had an Evil Sovereign and swore it would be my only bike for life. Then I got an Orange Five, and now the Stumpjumper, and basically stopped riding the Evil. The FS bike was MORE fun, despite being more capable. I don't think you will look back, and you can keep both and use them as you feel like it.

Maybe that's a good place to start. I will keep the Zero, no plans to get rid of it.

I guess it's that I don't want to sanitise the trails much, just maybe slightly reduce the battering I sometimes feel like I've had.

120mm is plenty to take the sting out of the trails but still make it feel that you have to do something to earn your speed.

My OH has a Superlight 29er - which I've used on occasion; very nice geometry with a 120 fork, short stem, wide bars. Great for descending natural trails. Shock has been Push tuned and this was very worthwhile upgrade (need the boost valve shock option to do this tho). Only thing that may be an issue is that the back end can feel a bit flexy - but this depends on your weight, terrain and riding style etc. FWIW, I'm 90kg and only notice the frame flexing when throwing the bike around trail centres or mashing and muscling up climbs. In fairness, my normal bike is a Tallboy LTc, which is uber-stiff, so almost every other bike feels a bit flexy in comparison.

The TB LT is a fantastic bike, but from what you've said, you might find it a bit too 'monster truck' like. I used to have an AnthemX and tried an Anthem 29 and like the Giant Maestro suspension ( very similar feel to SC vpp2), but didn't get on with the long chainstays on the Anthem 29.

My current fave bike is my Devinci Atlas aluminium; it has very similar geometry to Superlight and normal Tallboy, but can take anything from a 100 to 140mm fork. The frame is stiffer then the Superlight and it comes with a lifetime warranty that's even transerable between owners! I'm currently running a 140 fork to bias it for steep descents, but reckon a 130 fork would be perfect. The rear suspension is only 110mm, but it uses it very well, no need to faff with lockout etc. - it rockets up climbs like a hardtail...but with a bit more grip; the suspension also tracks well under braking. It's not a super plush rear suspension, like say, a Spesh FSR, so you do get more feel of what's going on. Tthe chainstays are super short, which gives the bike a super nimble feel. Compared to the TB LT, it's more of a 'pilot it through rough' bike rather than fly straight through - but it's a really nice involving ride. Oh, and around trail centres, it's completely bonkers fun - rip around berms and pop off everything fun:). TBH, the Atlas cost about a third of what my TB LTc did, but I actually prefer the Atlas ......shhh, don't tell the missus.

HTH

Sounds like you need a Camber Evo. 120mm Pike so nice and sturdy but no too long travel so it has a sporty feel. It's the bike I wish I'd bought instead of my Fuel 29er. I love my Fuel but only after buying a new fork, dropper post, stem, handlebars and drivetrain. The Camber would've saved me so much money in the long run!

Looks good - is it a Pike fork, the Evans site says Reba

Its a reba. Not a bad fork actually for starters. For the price it has a very sorted spec the drivetrain is crisp and smooth, deore brakes are excellent. Nice wide bars, slackish and low bb. Big grippy tyres. You wont be dissappointed

I was going to suggest a Camber Evo, but didn't want to appear a Spesh Phanboi. Not after what they did to Lance or something.

If you want a full sus for a hardtail rider may I suggest one of the new gen short travel agro 29ers?

Banshee phantom
Orange segment
Evil following
Kona process111
Etc.

Slack, rowdy bikes that pedal very well, feel very connected to the trail, but are designed to take the hits. Ignore the fact that they are 29ers, it is entirely irrelevant.

Read some of the reviews, they sound exactly like what you are after.

As long as they turn well in the twisty bits I don't mind what size wheels it has.

If you know how to throw a 26" bike into the corners a 29 isn't much different

That's ok then!

bowglie, is your atlas pretty slack with the longer forks on, or still more XC steep?

I really like the look of that Kona, and the spec.

But that means when I do crash I'll do more damage

I found that when i got my first FS (original 4" trance)
First ride out:
"oh yes, im going SO much faster down this rocky... ARGH S**T!!"

As for what you get, is an impossible choice, with no right or wrong answer.

Best starting point would be the manfacturer you are on at the moment, as the geometry and attitude should be comparable.
I would also suggest comparing a Single pivot (Segment) and a multi link (AnthemSX).

The anthem WILL ride better, but can you be bothered to look after 10 bearings?
Im still working out my new orange five. Ths suspension doesnt ride as well as the reign it replaced, but it isn't proving a problem yet! (last time i changed the bearings on the reign, i promised myself the next bike would be SP)

The anthem WILL ride better, but can you be bothered to look after 10 bearings?
Im still working out my new orange five. Ths suspension doesnt ride as well as the reign it replaced, but it isn't proving a problem yet! (last time i changed the bearings on the reign, i promised myself the next bike would be SP)

Having gone from single pivots to VPP 2 years ago I can't tell you how many bearings it has, not needed to think about changing them despite a lot of use, when I do I'll drop it at the LBS who will use the right tools as a SC dealer and the bearings are free for life.

Another vote for the Camber Evo. Other half has had his since Feb and finds it spot on for the riding you describe. He's come from riding a Cotic soul and like you he didn't want to lose the feel of the trail he'd enjoyed from the hardtail. He's ridden Devils Staircase, Ciaren Path etc on both and the camber definitely takes the edge off the hits!

This sounds promising.

How do the Camber and Stumpjumper differ, is it simply a spec/price thing or is there more to it? (Not being lazy, on my phone with poor internet).

Don't confuse the camber with the camber evo, the evo versions are slacker and more fun. Can't tell you much about the stumpy as I haven't looked into it but I guess it's more travel

thegreatape, apologies for delay replying (am away on riding holiday at the mo, so limited internet:))

According to the angle finder app on my phone, the headtube angle on the Atlas is about 68.7 degrees with the 140mm fork. The fork I'm running has a 51mm offset, which supposedly quickens the steering. Handling and ride wise, I guess it depends where and what you're riding. For typical trail centre reds, I find the Atlas very good, as it feels like the best bits of a 26er and 29er combined in one bike. However, if you regularly ride loose rocky rubble filled natural trails, I'd look for something with a longer wheelbase and maybe a touch slacker - like the Tallboy LT! It's not that the Atlas is terrible on that terrain, it's just that it doesn't feel as invincible as some other bikes.

Personally, I think the Superlight has the edge over the Atlas in natural terrain, as it does that single pivot thing of sitting back in its travel and slackening out a bit. The Atlas has very neutral suspension, and although I regularly ride mine down very steep tech trails, it needs more attention than the Superlight.

The suggestion of a Camber Evo is an interesting one - and if you can get them with a Pike, I think it could be a very good option. My OH got a carbon non-evo camber 29 as an insurance replacement, but she didn't get on with the suspension on it (Fox Evo CTD rubbish). I rode the Camber quite a bit and liked it, but the Evo model seems to address the quirks on the non-Evo model. Only thing to be aware of with Specialized is that they fit cheap bearings in the suspension, and compared to decent single pivots or SC vpp2, they can be a real pain to service/replace bearings. (I'm sure some Spesh fans will correct me there though;))

Oh, just thought of another bike that might be of interest - Salsa Horsethief; same suspension system and short chainstays as Atlas, but with slacker head angle and longer wheelbase.

Whyte t-129 scr, slack, long and low.