[Closed] 650b+ (and other plus sizes if you like) - rim, tyre, frame, fork combinations,

The Banshee Prime and Phantom (FS 29ers) have enough room to run 27.5+ with the standard dropouts (and you can adjust the BB height to bring it up to 29 level) and if you put the 27.5 dropouts from the 26 frames (Spitfire/Rune/Darkside) on them you can run 29+.

TB 2.8" on Pacenti DL31.

[img] [/img]

comes out at 64mm. PLenty of room in the back of an On-One Ti29er, and that's with tubular stays at the BB. Plate stays should give a ton of space.

[img] https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/HAtCZuBwSvFK8ScfqI9c-_xlKLV2Q2NsQW5bgw6PuKs=w1260-h945-no [/img]

Also lots of room in a 100mm Jeff Jones fork, but I doubt that's of much use to anyone since they're hardly common and you cant get them any more.

[img] https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ohfc08HEZeBqzBsM1Vmw-tYTgdnxpN42P3RAGz_0YH8=w709-h946-no [/img]

Interestingly I'm pretty sure my old racing ralph 2.4" 29er tyres came out at 64mm too.

Plenty of room in the back of my on one codeine and x-fusion trace forks, on Ryde enduro rims wrapped in trailblazers.

Unless it was to narrow the tyre down to enable it to fit a particular frame, I would be going for around 45mm rims. The more volume you can get, the better the ride.

On 52mm Hugos, the 2.8" TB measures 72.2mm at the widest part of the casing. The tread does not project past the casing, so I'd prefer a narrower rim to enable it to wrap around more.

Bikes that fit a 52mm Hugo with a 2.8" TB tyre:
Ragley TD-1 with reasonable clearance.

Don't fit:
On-One Scandal
Kona SS
Avanti KISS 29er

Maybe fit:
Surly 1x1, but have to deflate to get past canti mounts (later versions may be ok)

While I don't fundamentally disagree, epicyclo, at least one person on here has swapped from wide to narrow rims and said it didn't make any significant difference. I figure that I'll try it out with 30mm rims and change to a wider front if I like it as 30mm rims are available fairly cheaply.

Interested to know if anyone has tried a Solaris.

I think cotic already have.

Older gen Niner SIR.9
Cheap 30mm rims from a Orange Crush with WTB Trailblaster.
63mm (Ruler, not with a caliper).
Plenty of room. 70mm(ish).

Ran ok on mates Santa Cruz 29er HT.
(Hi-Ball ??)

Doesn't look massively bigger than a 2.35 Dampf.
Waiting for Blunts to land again. Reckon that will be best combo, & at £65, more affordable.
Running 29+ Knard on rigid Niner front & that's brill.

If anyone local to Staffs wants to try the 650+ your more than welcome.

I have a 27.5 wtb on a Sun Mulefut in the back of my Gryphon, loads of clearance to the frame but only about 1 or 2mm clearance to the chain in bottom gear on a 2 x 10 set up. Might patent it as a in built chain cleaning system.

Quick edit - Knard on one of those Pacenti rims in the front that fits easily in the stock forks.

I asked Cotic about rim/tyre combinations for the Solaris. Paul's response (which I hope he won't mind me repeating here) was:

"We have two pairs of wheels, one with KOMi25 rims and one with Scrapers, both fitted with the Trailblazer 2.8 tyres and they fit fine in the frame."

Jossie, is that the mulefut 50? Looks like a good value option. One question on rims with holes like that - how do you tubeless them? Special rim tape?

Yes, Mulefut 50 don't think the 80mm would fit (and they only do a 26" version I think?).

I've got a tube in mine with a Surly 26" rim tape that was left in hot water to expand a bit. Not entirely sure how you would go tubeless but it is possible, I think it's a case of Surly rim tape next to the rim then tubeless tape over that.

Hugo with a trailblazer, like Epicyclo says is up at 72mm so it looks like it would even have enough room going by some of the pics above. The hugo/trailblazer doesn't fit a Kinesis FF29. It is pretty much jammed in there once dropped into the dropouts so it's 100% a no goer. Obviously it rolls with scraper rims as Kinesis sell them (and have a full page ad showing the bike with them fitted)

2015 Trance 3 works too. I'll get some pics up soon.

If I went 27.5+ on my solaris would my reba 29 forks be OK?

I'd say yes.

I'm going to check on my other 29er but I reckon yes

Update on the Reba, yes, it's fine. By my reckoning (because it's hard to judge from the pics (the top pic is particularly misleading), there's at least 7mm at each side of the tyre at the narrowest point but plenty more elsewhere. I'd happily ride it. Note though that as above, I'm using a relatively narrow rim for b+ resulting in 'only' 64mm width of the tyre which means if you used a fatter rim/tyre you may well struggle.

[img] https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-X9O0bPBsZGIJanPvc2VXjabrdPf5lBhewSgP3VnryA=w528-h937-no [/img]

[img] https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_vlL-UdwZ_tdN3JxxeFi7AW08RS1N92Q1iKHqTcFMrQ=w528-h937-no [/img]]

Oh and a couple more pics of the full 650b+ build
[img] https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/UDEB0kMz5jCtiC1WQxGVxzJN24aHoohJGihl-LczuPI=w1280-h720-no [/img]

[img] https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/jc-R11XIxmTrAvjgS0ukhVgc4e9jSSJsSCXWV2pg89M=w1280-h720-no [/img]

It rides nicely - I reckon I could go lower on the pressure though but it was quite noticeable over rocky trails that it rolls over them very well and the grip on steeper climbs is fantastic (and something of a weakness for me so quite welcome)

Cheers Nemesis, the Reba looks possible then.

Time to gather the wheelbuild bits together...

Paul

On One Lurcher - not so good. It does fit but only with around 4 or 5mm clearance each side. I'd ride it if I needed to but it's far from ideal.

[img] https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/kkehDpLL9yTlHllNc2NMHObvK5nqKxwppZW9xpNmwBw=w541-h306-no [/img]

Wheelbuild parts ordered.

Hubs - from DCR Wheels (I think Novatec underneath)

Spokes - Sapim D-Light

Rims - went for the WTB Scraper

Tyres - 2.8" Vee Fatty's, and for the first time for me, Tubeless

Will pick up the tubeless tape and valves from Superstar I think.

The Turner Sultan will be my initial build - it's going to be a monster. XT groupset, Thomson Finishing kit, Reba forks.

Are you expecting those wheels to fit in a Reba? I reckon that might be a squeeze given that yours will probably be 10mm wider at the tyre than mine.

We shall see!

The chap on this site said "On the front, though the Scraper /Trailblazer combo was no issue. I have tried every 29er fork within my reach (FOX 32 and 34, ROCK SHOX Pike and MAGURA TS8R) and there was no problem with either of them"

http://twentynineinches.com/2014/08/22/wtb-trailblazer-27-5-x-2-8-tires-exclusive-b-review-intro/

OK, we'll see then 🙂

Fingers crossed!

My LBS ( http://www.reveloutdoors.co.uk/ ) have a Cannondale SS running 650b+

[img] ?oh=fbb21aac1e791cd2483856b3250c5b0b&oe=56330719[/img]

Front is a Hugo and 2.8 WTB tyre

Rear is a Hugo and 2.25 Schwalbe RR - There is room for a 2.4 but not a 2.8.

The bike looks fantatsic!

Looking at my 29er HT frames I would be surprised is any took a Hugo and a proper 650b+ tyre.

I'm going to try a Hugo on the front and either a DL31 or a Superstar rim on the rear as am impressed with what the DS25 I have in 29er guise.

That does look good.

The rear has a euro VDUB look about it!

Seems to work well on the gnarcore trails we have in the flatlands:

[img] ?oh=4556461f1ad16f993ba322c7333830ed&oe=55F06D3A[/img]

With that fork they could go 29+!

26" Hugo, Dirt Wizard, Cromoto fork. Loadsa room.

Rear is maxed out with 2.4 Conti X King on Crest.

[img] [/img]

So, which Dekerf frame is that?

1999 Generation. And though I said the rear is maxed out with 2.4 conti's, it's nowhere near as tight as the Thunder Burt in the front of the Peregrine. That's bordering on the inadvisable.

All the bits are in. Wheels are going to look good I think.

I have rebuilt my old Turner Sultan in anticipation. A little nervous the tyres will fit...

From what I can see the important measurement is 71-72mm for a WTB Trailblazer on a scraper rim. Will get the gauges out tonight. So hope it fits, because of it does the Turner is going to be a monster. I can even overcome the small drop in BB height by deploying the CCDB- previously this raised the BB too much.

If not, the Solaris will be seeing the wheels. Hopefully they will fit both.

My wheels above are almost identical in diameter to the 29er ones I had on the bike previously - admittedly that's with fairly skinny 2" 29er tyres but then the 650b tyres I have aren't massive either.

Interestingly I'm pretty sure my old racing ralph 2.4" 29er tyres came out at 64mm too

But it's not about the width of the tyre surely. The volume comes from the depth. Running wide rims can't alter cushioning type volume much, does it?

But it's not about the width of the tyre surely. The volume comes from the depth. Running wide rims can't alter cushioning type volume much, does it?

Volume's volume, though. If there's more of it, there's more cushioning. Area of the cross section times the diameter (pretty much). If you let the tyre spread out more by holding the beads an inch further apart (45mm internal width rather than 20mm i.w.) you're increasing the amount of air in it,.

Doesn't really matter what shape the cross section is, if it's 20% bigger, that's 20% more volume.

Interestingly, the Hugo doesn't optimise volume, as the rim profile intrudes into the cross section, rather than adding to it.

I wonder what the internal width of the dually would need to be to equal the volume of the hugo for a given tyre.

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[img] [/img]

+1 on ned - by my reckoning it's mostly about volume. Having said that, the depth of the tyre must have some effect though since effectively it's the travel of the tyre - if you ran a massively wide tyre that was only 1cm deep, it wouldn't ride the same (over bumps, let's ignore trying to go round a corner...) as a more conventional fat tyre, would it?

If I have a 29er and a set of 650 wheels is all I need a set of plus tyres to bodge a 650b+ bike?

I'll not necessarily get the whole set of benefits but my funds are limited at the moment

It's not about volume, its about tyre height and pressure.

a wider rim gives a squarer profile which is more stable and thus allows lower pressures. This also gives it more volume but that's not the reason.

podge - possibly and that's the point of this thread to list out combinations that do and don't work. You do need relatively wide rims (25mm internal width which is usually around 30mm external width seems about as low as will work well) though for it to work properly or the tyre will just roll around the rim.

al - I get the logic but I'm not sure it's really as simple as that.

a wider tyre (due to wider rim) will have a wider contact and therefore, shorter (front to back) which in turn means the tyre compresses less for a given load. That's why you can then run a lower pressure without grounding out the rim by my reckoning though you're also right in that if the tyre is taller, being narrower can allow a longer contact patch without risk of hitting the rim.

I suppose it comes down to the factors of tyre roll and bottoming out - depending on what/how you ride, one may be more important than the other.

I could only get 1 Trailablazer 2.8, so will build a front wheel first, with a Velocity Dually. Plan to build the rear on a V Blunt 35, when tyres and funds allow. Hoping they'll fit the Scandal SS, Solaris and Tallboy.

Charlie the Bikemonger had loads in stock a few weeks back

Just despatched his last to me.

Anyone know when WTB Asym 29 and 35 rims will be available?

Are there any other tyres availible but the Trailblazer and the Vee Rubber one? Might consider doing a 650b build as I find 26" a tad small and 29" a tad big for technical riding.

WTB have released a [url= http://www.gramslightbikes.com/2015/03/wtb-announces-bridger-30-275-tires-asym.html ]more aggro 3" tyre[/url]. Pretty heavy though at ~1kg each.
These set ups are only just smaller than a 29" wheel though, and will need a 29er frame.

Charlie the Bikemonger had loads in stock a few weeks back

Not any more he doesn't. In fact I can't see anybody who currently has Trailblazr tyres in stock. Either they aren't making many or there is a high demand.

Looks like Cotic are going for the WTB Asym rims.

No go on the Turner Sultan with 2.8 Trailblazer and Scraper Rims.

🙁

Tbh going off the review on 29 inches, you need a frame that'll take a 2.4 in the back to give good clearance and it's marginal with the scraper, which is why I went with a narrower rim, I'd say 35mm is probably best in the rear of a fs to get decent clearance.

The Sultan takes a 2.4" with ease. Its the shape of the chainstay yoke that causes the issue.

So, the Solaris is going get chubby instead.

The Sultan will remain 29. It meant I rebuilt it, and I'm really looking forward to riding it, plus or not.

Where are people getting wide rims from. I want some that cost less than my car as I'm trying to do this with a limited budget.

Good to read that a 2.4 29er should give enough clearance as I think that's what I've got

I'm running Ryde enduro which are 29mm internal, but you're probably looking around £100 for a 35mm and above rims, I went with those as I was concerned about rear clearance, now the codeine is built up I'd probably got away with a 40mm rim.

Looks like I did well getting in early on the trailblazers with charlie...

Velocity Blunt 35 are about £60-70 but actually getting some is difficult. As in my OP, my 30mm rims seem to work fine but I can't compare to properly wide (45mm+) ones.

As tootallpaul has found out, careful on assuming that if a 2.4" 29er tyre fits that a b+ tyre will - the b+ tyres are wider closer to the hub than a 29er tyre and many frames have the stays profiled in a way that means they don't really work.

The frame I'm eying up has sliding dropouts so I'd like to think I can adjust the rear wheel position to better suit the frame profile.

I got a Sun Mulefut built up by Just Riding Along, 50mm wide and pretty cheap.

Balls, the frame (when sold as a whole bike) is fitted with 2.2, probably means 2.4 is going to be tight.

It's been a couple of weeks... any more numbers from anyone?

FWIW, I've been finding that 650b+ has given my Swift a new lease of life. I'd got a little bored of it (no fault of the frame, just feeling time for something new) but I've now ridden it by choice almost every ride recently.

The more I ride it, the more I'm finding how to get the best from the wheels.

I'm running around 18psi front and 25 rear - probably rather higher than necessary, particularly at the back but I've found that it means the bike rolls near enough as well as my standard mtb wheels (and Stava backs this up - scientific 😉 ) but even riding rigid over rocky trails, it feels like a [u]very[/u] short travel suspension bike.

I'm still thinking that I'll change the front rim to something wider (45mm ish) but waiting until more options become available at more reasonable prices.

[img] [/img]

I'm planning on 650b+ing my Skookum

[URL= http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd279/letmetalktomark/IMG_0492_zpsb7de88aa.jp g" target="_blank">http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd279/letmetalktomark/IMG_0492_zpsb7de88aa.jp g"/> [/IMG][/URL]

My LBS have a Hugo for me for a front and based upon tyre plumpness on the rim will either go Hugo rear or a DS25/DL31 rear.

New fads eh ....

Seems there is a big price jump for rims over 31mm

Yep, that's what's holding me off at the moment.

Incidentally, my 650b+ wheels are identical (well, within a mm) in diameter to the 29er wheels I had on before - that was with some fairly skinny Spesh Storm control tyres. Compared to a more normal sized tyre (Maxxis Ignitor 2.1 IIRC) they're about 8mm smaller radius (eg it'd drop the BB by that amount).

I've had a WTB Trailblazer 2.8 and Panaracer Fat B Nimble 3.5, both on a 45mm Dually rim and both fit in a RS Rev fork. Panaracer is more rounded and only has 3-4 mm clearance either side (before the tyre stretches). The TB has 7mm, but too flat a profile for me. The tyre wall bellies out beyond the tread. The Panaracer is lightweight and slack, so haven't managed to seal tunelessly yet. WTB went up really easily.

Anyone know if a B+ will fit in the back of a 2014 Voodoo Bizango? As a side note, has anyone tried running 29er front B+ rear? MX style?

I've done the other way around - 29er rear, b+ front.

I can't see though that the other way round would be particularly good - the advantage of B+ is more at the front IMO, especially if you're using a rigid fork.

I was thinking as a faux suspension type set up with a suspension fork, just to take the sting out of drops

Yeah, I guess that would work but as I've found, other than weight, the b+ wheels don't seem to be noticeably slower than my standard 29er wheels so I'm not sure there's much point unless you're really trying to save weight.

Not weight, just money 😆

Having never ridden b+, are they any more comfortable than 29ers? Basically, I'm regretting selling my full suss and can't afford a new one

Well, comparing a rigid 29er to a rigid b+, then yes, it should be more comfortable as you'd expect due to the bigger volume but essentially same diameter wheels.

It's not a replacement for a full sus though so you'll be disappointed if that's what you're looking for. Think of it more like a [url= ]soft tail[/url] than full sus.

Cheers for the info, I might give it a whirl. I do prefer the hardtial 90% of the time, I could just do with a bit more squish when it gets bumpy or I find myself in the air for some inexplicable reason.

Plus buying one wheel and tyre would be cheaper than the going the whole hog to start with...

I'd go for the front wheel in that case...

prawny - Anyone know if a B+ will fit in the back of a 2014 Voodoo Bizango?

That was the frame I looked at but it comes with 2.2 and people are saying 650b+ needs 2.4 clearance as a rough rule of thumb. also told by Joe Murray that the Bizango will only take a straight steerer which means less compatibility with newer forks

Thanks for flagging this thread up nemesis.

Dunno if anyone has mentioned - but Superstar have some wider rims on the way apparently.

I'm still tempted to go with the DS25s though, as I'd be using them in my existing 29er frames and space might be tight width-wise.

Funny, I was going to email them to ask whether that was something they were considering. Have you got any more detail beyond that?

Also interested in the Superstar info, especially if they are available as rim only

sorry no, just read it in one of their emails or something

and in a review of the tech 4 wheels guy kesteven mentioned it too I think

Drop them a line anyway - they've been quite open about forthcoming products when I've asked before.

I've emailed them - will post back when I get a response.

I've seen people run a taper with an external bottom cup in the bizango, but I agree with the clearance, there's plenty with a 2.2 but not sure there's enough room for a 2.4

On the front v rear issue, I'm fairly happy with the front end, I could do with a bit more 'cush' at the back though, do you think I'll have an issue with the extra grip pushing the front?

do you think I'll have an issue with the extra grip pushing the front?

I have no idea what that means... 😳